Don't nerf Sawed Off Shotguns

[Exes]

I believe everybody would agree that fixing stats on guns for pvp or introducing pvp only weapons would fix everything and wouldn't be that hard to do...

[Wee_murray05]

So? Who cares about the actual one-shotting? Those 2-3 shots with a Pump Shotgun is nearly as fast and most certainly as guaranteed to kill your target. Again, nerfing Sawed Off Shotguns will do NOTHING to fix the problem

So on the money here it hurts. The same is true of anyone using a decent smg. With a much faster rate of fire anyone using a cloak/smg combo could do the exact same thing in about the same amount of time, especially with crit multipliers involved.

I'm not saying nerf smg's. I don't want to see any weapons nerfed.
Its cloak that is the problem. And as for anyone saying that you can see someone who is cloaked thats all well and good if they are running straight at you, but if they take the tome to circle behind you, as most do and indeed are speced for, then seeing a slighlty shimmering outline isnt going to help much.

Granted anyone can flank a player to take them unawares but cloak makes it so easy to do it is laughable.

[Vuule]

Or something.

Any game that is serious about having both PvP and PvE uses different statistics for PvP than PvE.

Its nigh-impossible to balance both using the same.

Which is the case with grenade launchers I believe.

[Alcohol Fueled Brewtality]

Yeah, Pump Shotguns are just a lot better in both PvE and PvP. Once you get over the "coolness" of one-shotting stuff you realize (the mind tend to wanders between reloads of a Sawed Off) that you can kill things more effectively with a Pump Shotgun and that Sawed Offs are more of a gimmick than a valid choice.

[Lazerus]

sadly i have never played halo
but i could see it in CoD and BF and whatever.

at the moment only shadow wars is a good base for balancing weapons.
i played pvp rarely so far, because i dont like the mapdesign for now. i will wait until there are bigger more team based maps like the removed 16 vs 16. my biggest probleme there were enemys with bioslime-rifles, because there was a lot of open terrain.

[nateD]

So, basicly... you want to weak shotguns, which are effective only over a short distance from the target (which it should be).

• Do you realize how much time it takes to reload a pump-shotgun? (additionally when the 'incomplete reload bug' is present, but I believe that this will be fixed)
  
  
• You realize that you first need to run to the opponent, to be able to kill him with the shotgun? So, reduce the damage to it and what I should do as I have to come to him? Take out a balloon from pocket, make a silly face, and hope that the opponent will die laughing?

just take the auto reload perk^^
its usefull for pump-actions.
just switch to your secondary weapon, wait around 11s and your shotgun is full again

aaaaand the map design. dont forget this!
you will get owned on a wide open map with the cloak-shotgun combo.

I'm aware of, but thanks

I've always said that shotguns shouldn't even be touched as the main problem in pvp is the combination with cloak which makes the downside for shotguns disappear.

My apologies, this post is not directly to you, I should mention that I direct it to @Alcohol Fueled Brewtality

[Exes]

So, basicly... you want to weak shotguns, which are effective only over a short distance from the target (which it should be).

• Do you realize how much time it takes to reload a pump-shotgun? (additionally when the 'incomplete reload bug is present', but I believe that this will be fixed)
  
  
• You realize that you first need to run to the opponent, to be able to kill him with the shotgun? So, reduce the damage to it and what I should do as I have to come to him? Take out a balloon from pocket, make a silly face, and hope that the opponent will die laughing?

I've always said that shotguns shouldn't even be touched as the main problem in pvp is the combination with cloak which makes the downside for shotguns disappear.

[Lazerus]

just take the auto reload perk^^
its usefull for pump-actions.
just switch to your secondary weapon, wait around 11s and your shotgun is full again

I've always said that shotguns shouldn't even be touched as the main problem in pvp is the combination with cloak which makes the downside for shotguns disappear.

aaaaand the map design. dont forget this!
you will get owned on a wide open map with the cloak-shotgun combo.

[Alcohol Fueled Brewtality]

So, basicly... you want to weak shotguns, which are effective only over a short distance from the target (which it should be).

• Do you realize how much time it takes to reload a pump-shotgun? (additionally when the 'incomplete reload bug' is present, but I believe that this will be fixed)
  
  
• You realize that you first need to run to the opponent, to be able to kill him with the shotgun? So, reduce the damage to it and what I should do as I have to come to him? Take out a balloon from pocket, make a silly face, and hope that the opponent will die laughing?

This is how Shotguns (all of them) should work. The problem is two-fold:

Cloak negates the most common downside to Shotguns in shooter games: closing the distance.

The current map selection heavily favors close quarters combat.

[nateD]

This is how Shotguns (all of them) should work. The problem is two-fold:

Cloak negates the most common downside to Shotguns in shooter games: closing the distance.

The current map selection heavily favors close quarters combat.

I wonder how many players who have to deal with Team Fortress 2 (for example) I'll find in Defiance.

I mean spy and his cloak & backstab. Such is the nature of this class, and people still play TF2 with no problem.

There is no such thing as a perfect balance, and at the moment I can see that the biggest problem is CLOAK itself. In that case, I look forward to reasonable suggestions on how cloak skill should looks/work like?

Besides, there will always be someone who will say that there is no balance. Next will be sniper rifles. "OMG, OMG, I have the whole super-set of the legendary items and the bad sniper killed me with single shot" - I'm waiting for it ...