Everything for a first person camera ... Or at least a centered character

[Midnightknight]

Been sometime now i am playing this game and there is one thing that really, really bug me more than everything is that choice of third person shooter with a character away from the middle of the screen.

I have read in a few place, the game was based on the skill. Well it's not. Sorry for that, you can't do a game based on millimetric aiming at weakness points with a gameplay so messy and inacurate. It could be a little arch saying this, but it's a simple fact. You never really shot at where is your crosshair.

The game is quite fun with good bases but this thing ruin most of it. Try to put a Head Shot to someone at close range with a pistol, goodluck, you will shot 1 meter on the left while your crosshair is right between his eyes, you zoom with a sniper have a clear sight on your target and shot in the wall you were hiden behind, shot grenades from a roof to see them stuck at your feet cause your caracter is 1 meter down your crosshair. Aiming is so so so inacurate, even when aiming with a scope (yeah cause with the scope it show you like in First person view, but you are not, your gun is still bottom right of you).

It's maybe nothing for many, but in a game wanting to make PVP, to make the use of weak spots and aiming right, this kind of things are just a pain in the ***. This makes some weapons really useless in the game, snipers and pistols are the first concerned, grenades launcher a little too that's maybe partly why most people play with infector, shootguns and explosives, cause they don't require aiming at all.

Oh and before saying i'm noob don't know how to play blabla, and i doubt it's me having troubles when i see the sniper so inaccurate with no bullet drop and no breath control like it could be in battlefield. Even in boderlands, a game really close to this one and TPS too, aiming is not so messy, and the troubles seem to come for the character so far away from the middle of your screen making shoot more like luck that anything else.

So please at least put an option to change your camera, i'm sure everyone will be happy about that.

[Zairthos]

I think the Mass Effect series, Gears of War series, Resident Evil 4-6, and various other games would like to have a word with you. The reason I say this is because there have been countless games that are in 3rd person and their aiming systems are on par with first person shooters. Your cross-hairs are going to tell you where your bullet will land, it doesn't matter where the gun is in the game. The reason I believe the game developers went with 3rd person was so the players could see more of the battle field and be more aware of the surroundings in a very chaotic game. First Person shooters typically allow a 35-45 degree angle of vision where a 3rd person shooter allows a 60-70 degree field of vision. Now lag and recoil can alter your bullet paths for obvious reasons and looking at your post that does seem to be the case more than anything else. I can say from personal experience that I haven't had this issue with the sniper rifle with all my shots landing where they were pointed whether I actually missed or was dead center on the head. Numerous users have complained that the head hit box is a bit small but if anything why can't that be a challenge? Actually shooting people in the head in real life is extremely hard in comparison to just body shots so if it is realism you are looking for than why should head shots be easier to get? You may want to look at the bloom stats on your gun in regards to the pistol. The bloom stats will tell you how close the bullet grouping is and if you are firing rapidly than the gun will become more inaccurate. I won't mock your skill because I don't have any idea how good you actually are or have a means of positively confirming it so all I can do is lend some suggestions and hypothesis on what is going on.

Now the only thing I have to ask is this. If your complaint is that the game doesn't hit on the dot with pinpoint accuracy than why are you suggesting for a bullet drop mechanic that would make the bullet not hit on the dot? That makes absolutely no sense.

[Midnightknight]

I think the Mass Effect series, Gears of War series, Resident Evil 4-6, and various other games would like to have a word with you. [...] Now the only thing I have to ask is this. If your complaint is that the game doesn't hit on the dot with pinpoint accuracy than why are you suggesting for a bullet drop mechanic that would make the bullet not hit on the dot? That makes absolutely no sense.

Actually i played mass effect with no troubles with that, neither in borderland in fact, like i told in the first post. Why? Cause first they don't require you to actually shot a really small weak point, secondly cause where you shoot is actually where you shoot in thoses games. I used Snipers in mass effect with no troubles at all, here is not the case and it's not an issue of hitbox (yeah it's sometime a little to small but that's not the main issue for me).
I did explain myself really badly, cause you understand the exact opposite i were saying. I don't want bullet drop here, i was simply poiting that in a game like battlefield, with bullet drop and need to control your breath, snippering was more accurate than is this game, which was a quite funny thing, cause you are supposed to put the bullet exactly where is your crosshair.

Your cross-hairs are going to tell you where your bullet will land, it doesn't matter where the gun is in the game.

Actually not, it's a simple geometrie issue and line of sight.
Why do you think there is actually a need to adjust your backsight in real shooting when you are shooting at 100 or 300m? Cause you don't look inside your canon but slightly uppward and this with the bullet drop alter your way of aiming.

But i will take another simple case about issues with this, hidding behind a create. You can see what's behind it on the right of your character, while you shouldn't ... But can't see anything coming from the right, where your char is supposed to see ... At lesat as well than on the other side. Right? That partly ruin tactics. You can't really know if you are well hidden on your left side while you actually can hide yourself pretty well from the right, having a clear sight all around your char on one side and not the other.
It's even worst while trying to partly hide yourself, like showing half your body, that become a mess and so unatural, while, again, no issues in the mass effect or bordelands. Play again mass effect, your character is slightly, i mean slightly on the bottom left, not 1 meter like in defiance. And there is no PVP in Mass effect ... Nor a need to aim like in defiance.



Seriously don't tell me you shoot at what you are aiming, you don't seem to have played mass effect a lot. Compare where your character is on the screen in defiance and Mass effect, on one game you can perfectly see on bother sides of your character, but in defiance your character is almost blind from the left side. Camera too far away from him and way too far on his right. The camera would be a little behind his right shoulder you wouldn't have this issue or in a really limited way. On my screenshot, my character should be 3,5cm on the right to get acurate shooting ...
And it's the same while aiming in first person mode, you shoot clearly away from where you aim at, at least at mid and close range.

[Midnightknight]

Here i took a small video about aiming with sniper and why it's pretty impossible to be efficient in this game cause of the position of the character. When not aiming you shoot too much on the left and a bit too low.

In aim mode you shoot really below the target at mid range and close range.

Here is what i used for the test, i tryed to aim the sky above the vendor in the council with the auto sniper.


First i shoot really above, to show where the bullet went, alsmost where it should, with a little spread. Everything is alright


Now i shot above the roof but not too much, like if trying to hit a head that could emerge from it, and see where the bullet landed ... In the roof, right. It's even not in the middle circle ... And everyone ask why sometime you shoot above the head and score a HS and while puting it right in, you do a normal hit? You have your anwser. Character not at his place.

I shot a target upper than me voluntarily cause it's where it is the worst, when you aim below yourself it's almost nul, hint that the cam is here above your char and not simply a little, but not on the right anymore.

Anyway in both mods your camera isn't at the good place making aiming and hiding a pain, like throwing grenades. Basically all that require a bit of tactic and not run in the melee with shootguns or auto aimed weapons, sadly.

[Pelican]

Actually i played mass effect with no troubles with that, neither in borderland in fact, like i told in the first post. Why? Cause first they don't require you to actually shot a really small weak point, secondly cause where you shoot is actually where you shoot in thoses games. I used Snipers in mass effect with no troubles at all, here is not the case and it's not an issue of hitbox (yeah it's sometime a little to small but that's not the main issue for me).
I did explain myself really badly, cause you understand the exact opposite i were saying. I don't want bullet drop here, i was simply poiting that in a game like battlefield, with bullet drop and need to control your breath, snippering was more accurate than is this game, which was a quite funny thing, cause you are supposed to put the bullet exactly where is your crosshair.


Actually not, it's a simple geometrie issue and line of sight.
Why do you think there is actually a need to adjust your backsight in real shooting when you are shooting at 100 or 300m? Cause you don't look inside your canon but slightly uppward and this with the bullet drop alter your way of aiming.

But i will take another simple case about issues with this, hidding behind a create. You can see what's behind it on the right of your character, while you shouldn't ... But can't see anything coming from the right, where your char is supposed to see ... At lesat as well than on the other side. Right? That partly ruin tactics. You can't really know if you are well hidden on your left side while you actually can hide yourself pretty well from the right, having a clear sight all around your char on one side and not the other.
It's even worst while trying to partly hide yourself, like showing half your body, that become a mess and so unatural, while, again, no issues in the mass effect or bordelands. Play again mass effect, your character is slightly, i mean slightly on the bottom left, not 1 meter like in defiance. And there is no PVP in Mass effect ... Nor a need to aim like in defiance.



Seriously don't tell me you shoot at what you are aiming, you don't seem to have played mass effect a lot. Compare where your character is on the screen in defiance and Mass effect, on one game you can perfectly see on bother sides of your character, but in defiance your character is almost blind from the left side. Camera too far away from him and way too far on his right. The camera would be a little behind his right shoulder you wouldn't have this issue or in a really limited way. On my screenshot, my character should be 3,5cm on the right to get acurate shooting ...
And it's the same while aiming in first person mode, you shoot clearly away from where you aim at, at least at mid and close range.

You are beyond point blank range your gun is sticking through the wall. Your argument is invalid, learn to play better.

[Midnightknight]

Learn to post first? Quote all the post and a screen shot for 20 words and nothing but a stupid "learn to play", where obviously you don't know how to play, fun.

First it's not beyong point blank, it is point blank in fact.
Then i did it at close range to show the gap, cause i would do it at 5 meters, with a bullet spread everyone would say "Oh but it's the bullet spread not the character position". And what are you saying with my snipers shots? Beyong point blank again at 20 meters?

God, do you actually play differently than use stealth run in ennemis, use shoot gun and run away? And even doing that, you would be a good player, you would have noticed what i'm talking about. But you are the kind of players spaming grenades in metro on BF3 and saying the others need to learn to play, don't you?