+ Reply to Thread
Results 1 to 10 of 10
  1. #1

    EVENT HORIZON on PTS - feedback and suggestions

    First... I'd LOVE to see the balance of this Event Horizon final, when it hits live, be as perfect as can be.

    I'm looking for something fresh. I'm looking for a very challenging event that pushes and forces players to get better both individually and by encouraging improved team play (instead of the typical mob of solo players swarming about). I'd like to see an event where clever group tactics are needed to be employed by guilds/groups of friends, testing different class/weapon/nano compositions within their groups, so they see improved results from a coordinated effort at an EH final.

    That challenge has been reached before, at several different event final designs in D13 as well as in the early days of expeditions. I'm glad to see EH put on PTS and encouraged by the 2 different styles put out on PTS over the first few days.

    That said... I'll put forth some general observations first, followed by feedback from the 1st iteration of EH which was on PTS April 16-18, then feedback from the 2nd iteration currently on PTS which started on April 19th. Finally, I'll propose a mash-up of the two, explaining the reasons why I'd like to see it brought to PTS as well. Hopefully, by that time we'll have enough players on PTS to adequately test it... middle of next week? I've no idea how much programming effort is entailed to modify mob progression of finals, so we'll see what happens.

    GENERAL OBSERVATIONS:

    It's a bit difficult to come to accurate assessments of EH's 2 versions... mostly because we just haven't gotten player representation on PTS to a comparable level as what's attending finals on Live servers. I've soloed two, duo'd some, several finals with 3, and several with from 5-7 players participating at the finals, but not more than that. That said, 5 solid years grinding D13, and regular play since 2050's launch I've a decent feel for projecting added population into account, since I also play off peak hours enough to notice the differences in how finals play out.

    - I'll make an effort to have targeted discussions with the more populated guilds on PC/NA to see if I can encourage more PC/NA players to try PTS. I'd like to encourage other Ark Hunters to join in spreading the word that this PTS is worth checking out.
    - To help address the above point, create an automated message go out over all zones, at the top of every hour, asking people to join on PTS, as well as tell them how, specifically. The guide thread on the PTS forum should be bombed and redone properly, it's misleading, not accurate nor complete. But most players wishing to join PTS won't check the forum guide, or just miss a simple piece, as I did (for months).
    - The reason I mention both prior points is this... testing the progressive, scaling difficulty of successive waves majors now employed in 2050 (the faster wave clear, the more mobs spawn and the opposite downscaling) isn't really able to be tested appropriately with the current PTS attendance... and it would be useful to test it.
    - We could use more console players on PTS as well, although since it's a PC only PTS... the final EH result may or may not work so well on consoles. I don't use consoles and this needs to be considered, especially since 2050 was designed for consoles. I'm sure the dev's have plenty of experience with it, I just don't want to see the event be dialed in for PC only to be riddled with issues due to console limitations.
    - I appreciate the coding that's been added at EH finals, where when the event timer nears the end it auto-completes the event... with enough time to interact with the gulanee runner and recieve the final scoreboard... even if the final objective of clearing the mobs wasn't met.
    - New scaling of damages... this deserves a thread of it's own, but to mention here... weapon damages across the board have been adjusted. New players deal more damage, which is nice to see. 3k players at this event dish damage well enough, and do better with smart nano/weapon choices... the balance seems fitting for mid level players. That said 5k does have better survivability and improved damage/kill speed than a 3k or 4k player. It's subtle with a natural progression, but PTS allows for quick PR increases, and from 3.3-3.8k ish to 5k, the difference is noticable and feels right.
    - Player's: don't expect much from EH major's initial 5 cores, they employ the fast wave propgation style we've seen before in D13... all 5 waves spawn in quickly and with just a few players mobs are cleared fast. Don't expect a puddle of 10-20 players at cores, there won't be time for any build-up. This is FINE, since the EH final is where the fun is... and hopefully be a long progressively difficult fight.

    1st EVENT HORIZON iteration:
    - First impressions, laughingly lethal at times... with few players against it, it could become overwhelming in seconds with new spawns... it was a lot of fun. Even if you spent a lot of time driving back to it. I think for a 20+ player final it would be appropriate, there would be enough targets for the mobs to harrass which would mitigate the overwhelm factor, besides the aggregate damage from players continually thinning the mob build-up. The helibots lasers, the Dark Matter snipers were lethal. Instant death. It was fun and put a premium on making those 2 mobs priority #1 targets, which is a PLUS to tactically insert choices for players. I'd go into sniper/helibot attack mode whenever free and felt good about saving a death with every kill. When they spawned the same time as the waves of scrapper mongrels and later omnivolts and Dark Matter bulwarks, it was challenging. The omnivolts rushing getting in your face (fast and with enough HP so you couldn't ignore them), backed by bulwarks slowly backing them up unleashing rockets, both providing physical cover for the mobile helibots remaining behind or flanking and stealthed snipers... it was mayhem. Enjoyable mayhem. I think it was a valid design that would cause plenty of cursing at instant deaths, but we are a bit used to that with Monolith rocket barrages and pulse bombs. As you (dev's) know, EH's issue with lag was partly due to few players insufficient to thin out the mobs the event generated, combined with the scrapper/Dark Matter war with each other when no players were around to draw aggro, combined with some pretty impressive simoultaneous large spawns, which I supsect led to the significant cause of lag... when generating mob waves in that split second of spawning in, mobs both acquired and fired attacks. Instant lag and unavoidable carnage if you were anywhere in range. Sure you might be frozen with lag and unable to see the spawn arrive until after you were dead, but you could hear the resolution of all the attacks that plastered you into your next extract. Fun, but unavoidable death unless you stayed well outside the spawn areas (which isn't as fun) and just doesn't work for those who love dicing it up in mobile, close quarters combat with shotguns, etc....
    - A suggestion here. The coding that handles the scaling up and down difficulty of future spawns leads to a definite fun factor at normal finals. However, if after adjusting the new spawn's auto-target/unleash hell the same instant as spawning in code isn't enough to offset the lag spike that comes with it... why not stagger the spawn of the next wave, so they come in stages 6-8-10 seconds apart, and don't ALL come in at once. Sure, it makes those camping spawn spots with Christmas prezzies or Minefield less gleeful upon a successfully timed field hitting massive damage numbers... but there's no reason the next wave HAS to come in all at once.
    - Dark Matter humanoid mobs regularly tossed grenades at similar to player intervals and posed some deaths if you weren't aware and stationary. I liked the added threat from this - sneaky.


    2nd EVENT HORIZON iteration: I just don't want to offer spoilers here. Thanks Liam, for having Guider let me see the current PTS EH final design for myself, instead of spilling all the changes... well done brother. While I've seen one of the two new models before, it was barely used at just one prior D13 event. So I'm going to attempt to do the same for anyone else and use some vague descriptions here on purpose.

    - The adjusted lower numbers of helibots and DM snipers, combined with gutting anything lethal about them just made them similar to a couple gnats flying around a meadow at a picnic - irrelevant. Lost all the impact/fun they provided from the 1st version.
    - The Dark Matter humanoid targets don't get too aggressive, they are content to plink at you from range with quantum damage. I could be wrong, but I don't believe I saw the grenades in use adding to them being pretty toothless.

    1st Final - Duo'd it with Guider at SF's south Overpass location. Should be tough. We worked together well, but were laughably overwhelmed more and more as the final progressed. Electric el diablo/Corrosive digger for me on Artemis Engineer, Quantum mag blaster/Piercing sniper on execute Assassin for Guider. None of the scrapper mobs really posed much of a threat, unable to do much damage to us. I'd like to see that corrected so "ONE" of the mob types, at least, packs a wallop. It did not. Spectacular but toothless, I'd definitely like to see the direct opposite of that... spectacular presence and damage potential. The event became a vast field of bulwarks we were unable to thin efficiently. There were always plenty to fan out and constantly be chinking us. The combination of elect/quantum wasn't efficient, el diablo struggles to do enough damage to one bulwark, it gets there but takes time, and partially damaged bulwarks fall back to be covered by others only added to the overwhelm. LMG's and AR's would work okay, until they are hit with a series of unavoidable knockbacks. Those knockbacks impose a timed duration debuff (5 sec?) to reloading time, so for some weapons... tried a fragger at the second final against the DM mobs... the knockback reload penalty really impared reloading until those (5?) seconds passed. With more players at a final, no one should be targeted by 5-20+ bulwarks at once.

    2nd Final - took a suggestion from Guider to try out quantum and piercing. Both nano's I don't use Live (mostly due to the lack of a 50% damage bonus vs HP/Armor/Shields and therefore skilling up weapon types suffers). It's PTS, I gave it a go. Electric Fragger/Piercing Digger on Artemis Engineer. Thankfully, we were joined by others who joined in for the final... 5 of us in total. The final was E of Top Notch (so missing the SF added toughness).
    The final was pretty much a cakewalk, Guider and I started focus firing the first few waves, both using Piercing to take them out efficiently. We then separated most of the time, a little overlap fighting side by side with others haphazardly. We were slicing and dicing our way around a good deal more with little consequence. Bulwarks nailed me a couple times due to my first time using a fragger in 2050, paying the price when got up close and personal with just 1 shot to unload, too often, courtesy of the knockback reload penalty which I then watched occur over and over through the bulwark themed last half of the final.

    I'm not sure this iteration offers much challenge to the ark hunters. Normal numbers of players at a SF EH final will still see Bulwarks in numbers, but ark hunters will adjust and come loaded for them so it won't be near as bad as my 1st look at it, described above.

    I'll test this more over the weekend, and add more if necessary.


    3rd EVENT HORIZON iteration RECOMMENDATION:
    I'd like to see some of the 'teeth' from the first EH design input here. Large swarming numbers fronting/blocking lethality behind is fine. But then I'd like to see the TWO NEW mob types incorporated with more destructive/toughness, so they are a challenge... and have them be Earnable... so a slow clear brings their precursors out, but a successful faster clear brings them forth early if merited, to have them in force for the last 1/3rd to 1/4 of the fight regardless. The scrapper boss type definitely could use some insta-kill if you get stomped (it SHOULD to provide the experience) and ranged power to make it a force fear, so you Have to pay attention to it and dodge it's damage or pay the price. Have the two boss types be either surrounded by support mobs or multiples of them, more if the clear speed has kept up to that point. Potential for a few that are VERY tough and DISH if the event is slow to clear, up to a lot that are at least half again as tough as they currently are since they will be focus fired with glee, especially if they bring pain. This benefits the other mobs they spawn with since they would have more latitude to get in peoples faces and cause havoc. A riot of a final is a good thing, if the ark hunters appear capable of the challenge up to that point.

    ----------

    Final words (for now): I also think a longer PTS and actively encouraging people try it could be used to help spread the much needed word of mouth that engineer and a fun event are imminent, so come try it out again. Getting the EH balance down and having it be fun would definitely help 2050... so I don't see a drawback to using a moderately extended PTS as an initial marketing draw if the result helps bring some players back to experience Engineer and have some fun.

    2050 PC/NA Founder: Babydoll (with permission from Professor Chaos) aka Babydahl, Bloody Natasha, Kylarran in Defiance
    Defiance PC/NA Founders: Professor Chaos and Iron Death, RIP brother

  2. #2
    Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2018
    Location
    drinking at The Crater
    Posts
    106
    well that was typical BD...quick and concise heh :P


    Don't have anything else to add except to repeat that I found a quantum saw and rad digger to work alright...with the syn matrix setup properly. will continue to test to see what i like best.

  3. #3
    Member Guider's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2018
    Location
    It is a Mystery~
    Posts
    720

    My Thoughts to Kylarran's Event Horizon Feedback

    Quote Originally Posted by Kylarran View Post
    First... I'd LOVE to see the balance of this Event Horizon final, when it hits live, be as perfect as can be.
    Agreed. This could be the Event to bring back some veteran players...as well as help breathe new life into the game.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kylarran View Post
    I'm looking for something fresh. I'm looking for a very challenging event that pushes and forces players to get better both individually and by encouraging improved team play (instead of the typical mob of solo players swarming about). I'd like to see an event where clever group tactics are needed to be employed by guilds/groups of friends, testing different class/weapon/nano compositions within their groups, so they see improved results from a coordinated effort at an EH final.
    A nice change of pace would be helpful. The type of event you described is one I can get behind the idea of as well. Once the update hits, the challenge will go down some... a challenging event could help counteract this...temporarily at least. The co-op and teamplay is one of the things that I enjoy about this game...it would be nice to see that on a larger scale. Our runs at the PTS Event Horizon Arkfalls have been pretty fun.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kylarran View Post
    That challenge has been reached before, at several different event final designs in D13 as well as in the early days of expeditions. I'm glad to see EH put on PTS and encouraged by the 2 different styles put out on PTS over the first few days.
    Maybe it can be reached again here. Although when the update first dropped, it took a few majors before the people on (myself included) even managed to complete one...it did not take long to get them cleared regularly. Although this may not be the same case when Live is hit...but yeah, the 2 different styles have been pretty cool!

    Quote Originally Posted by Kylarran View Post
    That said... I'll put forth some general observations first, followed by feedback from the 1st iteration of EH which was on PTS April 16-18, then feedback from the 2nd iteration currently on PTS which started on April 19th. Finally, I'll propose a mash-up of the two, explaining the reasons why I'd like to see it brought to PTS as well. Hopefully, by that time we'll have enough players on PTS to adequately test it... middle of next week? I've no idea how much programming effort is entailed to modify mob progression of finals, so we'll see what happens.
    At this point I already read this post, just relaying my thoughts out to you. It would be wonderful to get more players to try out the PTS. The feedback would be greatly appreciated...after all, it may help to make this update become the best one Defiance 2050 has seen yet! Also, it might not be that much if it was done within a couple of days. Then again, it depends all on the teams...hmm.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kylarran View Post
    GENERAL OBSERVATIONS:

    It's a bit difficult to come to accurate assessments of EH's 2 versions... mostly because we just haven't gotten player representation on PTS to a comparable level as what's attending finals on Live servers. I've soloed two, duo'd some, several finals with 3, and several with from 5-7 players participating at the finals, but not more than that. That said, 5 solid years grinding D13, and regular play since 2050's launch I've a decent feel for projecting added population into account, since I also play off peak hours enough to notice the differences in how finals play out.
    Yes, the best has been like what....7, 8 people at a major? There are more than that during peak hours...It's hard to get a good grasp of what it would be like then. I have also noticed the difference with many people vs not many people on Live. All it takes is one strong damage dealer...and the arkfall will go quick. Quick enough for it to even be thought that people are cheating/using glitched weapons. It is easily noticeable for me as well.

    For the next parts of your post, I'm just going to try and space it out some. I have no problems reading it, but it may help others read it a bit better.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kylarran View Post
    - I'll make an effort to have targeted discussions with the more populated guilds on PC/NA to see if I can encourage more PC/NA players to try PTS. I'd like to encourage other Ark Hunters to join in spreading the word that this PTS is worth checking out.
    I'll see what I can do for PS4 NA as well. The more the merrier!

    Quote Originally Posted by Kylarran View Post
    - To help address the above point, create an automated message go out over all zones, at the top of every hour, asking people to join on PTS, as well as tell them how, specifically. The guide thread on the PTS forum should be bombed and redone properly, it's misleading, not accurate nor complete. But most players wishing to join PTS won't check the forum guide, or just miss a simple piece, as I did (for months).
    I see this happening for other games. Some may get annoyed by it, but some sort of interval for these messages would help draw attention to it...especially for those who do not read the forums. It would be nice to have that guide fixed up a bit too...

    Quote Originally Posted by Kylarran View Post
    - The reason I mention both prior points is this... testing the progressive, scaling difficulty of successive waves majors now employed in 2050 (the faster wave clear, the more mobs spawn and the opposite downscaling) isn't really able to be tested appropriately with the current PTS attendance... and it would be useful to test it.
    Yup, this is true as well. More PTS players would be able to help out with testing this and, as it stands right now, that is something a small group or 2 of players can not simply though... especially if we are not all coordinated with each other and that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kylarran View Post
    - We could use more console players on PTS as well, although since it's a PC only PTS... the final EH result may or may not work so well on consoles. I don't use consoles and this needs to be considered, especially since 2050 was designed for consoles. I'm sure the dev's have plenty of experience with it, I just don't want to see the event be dialed in for PC only to be riddled with issues due to console limitations.
    I hear ya on that....but it may be tougher to get good feedback though (due to not many console players not having adequate PCs). As mainly a console player, a good event would likely help increase numbers well, so maybe they have considered that already... and hopefully it working well on older PCs might help provide some kind of idea as to how things will play out. If it can work well on those...then consoles should be fine...?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kylarran View Post
    - I appreciate the coding that's been added at EH finals, where when the event timer nears the end it auto-completes the event... with enough time to interact with the gulanee runner and recieve the final scoreboard... even if the final objective of clearing the mobs wasn't met.
    This is news to me, as I have yet to really notice this. o.o Interesting...

    Quote Originally Posted by Kylarran View Post
    - New scaling of damages... this deserves a thread of it's own, but to mention here... weapon damages across the board have been adjusted. New players deal more damage, which is nice to see. 3k players at this event dish damage well enough, and do better with smart nano/weapon choices... the balance seems fitting for mid level players. That said 5k does have better survivability and improved damage/kill speed than a 3k or 4k player. It's subtle with a natural progression, but PTS allows for quick PR increases, and from 3.3-3.8k ish to 5k, the difference is noticable and feels right.
    This is something that will [hopefully] have more players feel comfortable playing in San Francisco come update time. Glad at least someone else has touched up on this. Heh.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kylarran View Post
    - Player's: don't expect much from EH major's initial 5 cores, they employ the fast wave propgation style we've seen before in D13... all 5 waves spawn in quickly and with just a few players mobs are cleared fast. Don't expect a puddle of 10-20 players at cores, there won't be time for any build-up. This is FINE, since the EH final is where the fun is... and hopefully be a long progressively difficult fight.
    Seems the same as Hulker Hell and Solstice Strike minors as far as Defiance 2050 goes...but yes, these ones with even more people playing compared to what is on PTS right now...they will likely only last 30 seconds- 1 minute with each one...maybe even a little more time than that. Yeah EH finals are a doozy hehe.

    Going to break up the next part a bit but still leaving it all in one quote.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kylarran View Post
    1st EVENT HORIZON iteration:
    - First impressions, laughingly lethal at times... with few players against it, it could become overwhelming in seconds with new spawns... it was a lot of fun. Even if you spent a lot of time driving back to it. I think for a 20+ player final it would be appropriate, there would be enough targets for the mobs to harrass which would mitigate the overwhelm factor, besides the aggregate damage from players continually thinning the mob build-up.

    The helibots lasers, the Dark Matter snipers were lethal. Instant death. It was fun and put a premium on making those 2 mobs priority #1 targets, which is a PLUS to tactically insert choices for players. I'd go into sniper/helibot attack mode whenever free and felt good about saving a death with every kill. When they spawned the same time as the waves of scrapper mongrels and later omnivolts and Dark Matter bulwarks, it was challenging.

    The omnivolts rushing getting in your face (fast and with enough HP so you couldn't ignore them), backed by bulwarks slowly backing them up unleashing rockets, both providing physical cover for the mobile helibots remaining behind or flanking and stealthed snipers... it was mayhem. Enjoyable mayhem. I think it was a valid design that would cause plenty of cursing at instant deaths, but we are a bit used to that with Monolith rocket barrages and pulse bombs.

    As you (dev's) know, EH's issue with lag was partly due to few players insufficient to thin out the mobs the event generated, combined with the scrapper/Dark Matter war with each other when no players were around to draw aggro, combined with some pretty impressive simoultaneous large spawns, which I supsect led to the significant cause of lag... when generating mob waves in that split second of spawning in, mobs both acquired and fired attacks. Instant lag and unavoidable carnage if you were anywhere in range.

    Sure you might be frozen with lag and unable to see the spawn arrive until after you were dead, but you could hear the resolution of all the attacks that plastered you into your next extract. Fun, but unavoidable death unless you stayed well outside the spawn areas (which isn't as fun) and just doesn't work for those who love dicing it up in mobile, close quarters combat with shotguns, etc....
    Yeah I had loads of fun as well with how things first went. Until the game got to a point it seemed to be not able handing all of the mobs on the field at once...

    Those lasers kicked my butt so many times haha. At that point I think I would rather the Quantum Archers. XD Either way, yeah it was nice to have a priority for the targets. It was challenging indeed.

    Oh yeah some words would have been said alright...some may already have been... *whistles* The teamwork the enemies did against us was phenomenal. I would not mind seeing more of that when possible.

    Yeah...and when we did clear some...sooooo many more mobs came out. It's like for every one we killed 5 more would come out...It was craaazzy. That war was awesome to watch though. Too bad I had no popcorn...such a good show. Those hellbots did and still can set up so fast though like holy heck... Blink when they spawned and your character would be dead. Wicked. Thankfully, having a Sniper helped out some then (and still now as well...).

    Yeah, having to sit back and play it extra careful would not be some other players' playstyle. As of right now though, that is [thankfully] not the case anymore...

    Quote Originally Posted by Kylarran View Post
    - A suggestion here. The coding that handles the scaling up and down difficulty of future spawns leads to a definite fun factor at normal finals. However, if after adjusting the new spawn's auto-target/unleash hell the same instant as spawning in code isn't enough to offset the lag spike that comes with it... why not stagger the spawn of the next wave, so they come in stages 6-8-10 seconds apart, and don't ALL come in at once. Sure, it makes those camping spawn spots with Christmas prezzies or Minefield less gleeful upon a successfully timed field hitting massive damage numbers... but there's no reason the next wave HAS to come in all at once.
    A spawning delay here could prove to be very useful. Especially if maybe this and #2 are mixed as #3...Breaking up the waves does not seem like it would be a bad thing, if possible.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kylarran View Post
    - Dark Matter humanoid mobs regularly tossed grenades at similar to player intervals and posed some deaths if you weren't aware and stationary. I liked the added threat from this - sneaky.
    Sneaky indeed muahahaha.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kylarran View Post
    2nd EVENT HORIZON iteration: I just don't want to offer spoilers here. Thanks Liam, for having Guider let me see the current PTS EH final design for myself, instead of spilling all the changes... well done brother. While I've seen one of the two new models before, it was barely used at just one prior D13 event. So I'm going to attempt to do the same for anyone else and use some vague descriptions here on purpose.
    Thanks again Liam for the suggestion. It is nice to see something that was barely used before as well.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kylarran View Post
    - The adjusted lower numbers of helibots and DM snipers, combined with gutting anything lethal about them just made them similar to a couple gnats flying around a meadow at a picnic - irrelevant. Lost all the impact/fun they provided from the 1st version.
    Yeah the DM snipers' numbers are so small, they are practically invisible! True with the irrelevancy, but I wonder what all can be done without making the final too painful...hmm.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kylarran View Post
    - The Dark Matter humanoid targets don't get too aggressive, they are content to plink at you from range with quantum damage. I could be wrong, but I don't believe I saw the grenades in use adding to them being pretty toothless.
    I think I have seen them still throw their grenades, but I usually see the Hellbots and Omnivolts get more aggressive than them. Hell all of the Dark Matter mobs aside from the Bulwarks just sit chilling inside the circle! like...okay... ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kylarran View Post
    1st Final - Duo'd it with Guider at SF's south Overpass location. Should be tough. We worked together well, but were laughably overwhelmed more and more as the final progressed. Electric el diablo/Corrosive digger for me on Artemis Engineer, Quantum mag blaster/Piercing sniper on execute Assassin for Guider. None of the scrapper mobs really posed much of a threat, unable to do much damage to us. I'd like to see that corrected so "ONE" of the mob types, at least, packs a wallop. It did not. Spectacular but toothless, I'd definitely like to see the direct opposite of that... spectacular presence and damage potential.

    The event became a vast field of bulwarks we were unable to thin efficiently. There were always plenty to fan out and constantly be chinking us. The combination of elect/quantum wasn't efficient, el diablo struggles to do enough damage to one bulwark, it gets there but takes time, and partially damaged bulwarks fall back to be covered by others only added to the overwhelm.

    LMG's and AR's would work okay, until they are hit with a series of unavoidable knockbacks. Those knockbacks impose a timed duration debuff (5 sec?) to reloading time, so for some weapons... tried a fragger at the second final against the DM mobs... the knockback reload penalty really impared reloading until those (5?) seconds passed. With more players at a final, no one should be targeted by 5-20+ bulwarks at once.
    Yeah the Hellbots and Omnivolts seemed to do more damage than the Forges usually would hit me for (sometimes I was successfully hit by a Forge's attack and lost 3-4 bars of health, but it did not happen often enough for it to be a problem...). Maybe make the Forges a bit deadlier? Either way, we sure got our butts kicked at that arkfall though wowzers. You and I using different classes helped out some...our skill combos helped to make them go down faster some...once we figured out a good strategy for the arkfall.

    Yeah..I already mentioned it on PTS to you here a lil while ago... but it helps going with the same nano damage when possible...makes a big difference from what I have noticed. Those Bulwarks had quite the leash. :P So many of them too like..holy heck.

    The knockback reload issues sure can get old quick. Especially on the Fragger... :/ I can imagine that happening to one player if it is anything like the Hulkers with Hulker Hell and the Monolith's rockets...*shivers*

    Quote Originally Posted by Kylarran View Post
    2nd Final - took a suggestion from Guider to try out quantum and piercing. Both nano's I don't use Live (mostly due to the lack of a 50% damage bonus vs HP/Armor/Shields and therefore skilling up weapon types suffers). It's PTS, I gave it a go. Electric Fragger/Piercing Digger on Artemis Engineer. Thankfully, we were joined by others who joined in for the final... 5 of us in total. The final was E of Top Notch (so missing the SF added toughness).
    Quantum and Piercing ftw wooooooo! Yeah no, I expected hardly anyone to use either, and with good reasoning. What you described with weapon skills being one of them. I am still curious on what the scaling changes will do to weapon skill as well...hmm. Damn straight it is PTS The help was nice to see...really appreciated! Thanks guys! Well better to take time figuring out your setup for those rather than rushing in like Rambo and instead dying every 5 seconds.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kylarran View Post
    The final was pretty much a cakewalk, Guider and I started focus firing the first few waves, both using Piercing to take them out efficiently. We then separated most of the time, a little overlap fighting side by side with others haphazardly. We were slicing and dicing our way around a good deal more with little consequence. Bulwarks nailed me a couple times due to my first time using a fragger in 2050, paying the price when got up close and personal with just 1 shot to unload, too often, courtesy of the knockback reload penalty which I then watched occur over and over through the bulwark themed last half of the final.
    Mmm...cake. Delicious~. Yeah the enemies went down MAD quick in the beginning. It was...so beautiful. *sniff* Yeah the separation helped to cover more ground, so that was good. Everyone working together was nice as well. ^_^ Yeah the Bulwarks were not playing around. That knockback penalty is It really messes up with reloading some.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kylarran View Post
    I'm not sure this iteration offers much challenge to the ark hunters. Normal numbers of players at a SF EH final will still see Bulwarks in numbers, but ark hunters will adjust and come loaded for them so it won't be near as bad as my 1st look at it, described above.
    Yeah even about 5-7 of us have been able to clear them out quick...triple those numbers and it seems like it will be cake. Smaller amount of players though...yeah... It would still be rough then.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kylarran View Post
    I'll test this more over the weekend, and add more if necessary.
    I am sure it is all appreciated. Keep up the good work!

    Quote Originally Posted by Kylarran View Post
    3rd EVENT HORIZON iteration RECOMMENDATION:

    I'd like to see some of the 'teeth' from the first EH design input here. Large swarming numbers fronting/blocking lethality behind is fine. But then I'd like to see the TWO NEW mob types incorporated with more destructive/toughness, so they are a challenge... and have them be Earnable... so a slow clear brings their precursors out, but a successful faster clear brings them forth early if merited, to have them in force for the last 1/3rd to 1/4 of the fight regardless.

    The scrapper boss type definitely could use some insta-kill if you get stomped (it SHOULD to provide the experience) and ranged power to make it a force fear, so you Have to pay attention to it and dodge it's damage or pay the price. Have the two boss types be either surrounded by support mobs or multiples of them, more if the clear speed has kept up to that point.

    Potential for a few that are VERY tough and DISH if the event is slow to clear, up to a lot that are at least half again as tough as they currently are since they will be focus fired with glee, especially if they bring pain. This benefits the other mobs they spawn with since they would have more latitude to get in peoples faces and cause havoc. A riot of a final is a good thing, if the ark hunters appear capable of the challenge up to that point.
    The 'teeth' from the first iteration would be cool to see. Only problem is how far can they go without it screwing up consoles... I like your idea that you suggested though. It works similarly to how major arkfalls work now. Except we will see them regardless...but early and stronger as well...sounds like a tasty bloodbath. XD

    Yeah Forges...need a little more beef, especially with how they are portrayed. The huge jump and slam that they do really isn't much...easily survivable in its current state. Ranged power is easily survivable as well...especially in San Francisco. A damage buff could help make them more of a threat compared to their lackluster versions right now. The bigger mobs having more support with the smaller ones like first iteration (and more with better clear speed)?? Hmmm... sounds like it would be chaos. Loving the idea. Just have to be careful of it not being too many to cause hell on the servers...especially for consoles.


    This seems interesting...Have stronger support mobs that can not spawn anymore if we are too slow to clear them out...so not instakill, but just more defense and faster killing rate (If I read the potential part right)...hmm. Well Omnivolts like to do that some already...more hugs? more hugs. It sounds sooooo heartwarming to get hit in the face by more mobs...Quite interesting either way. Yeah a heck of a good final would be nice...by now, I figure most of us can meet that challenge, so if it is possible...why not?

    ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Kylarran View Post
    Final words (for now): I also think a longer PTS and actively encouraging people try it could be used to help spread the much needed word of mouth that engineer and a fun event are imminent, so come try it out again. Getting the EH balance down and having it be fun would definitely help 2050... so I don't see a drawback to using a moderately extended PTS as an initial marketing draw if the result helps bring some players back to experience Engineer and have some fun.

    Yeah, promotion/advertising it some would help loads...if things can be sustained with lots of people shooting and doing a bunch of crazy stuff...then great! Come and join PTS people for Engineer and Event Horizon stuff... I promise we will not bite. I agree finding that balance of challenge and fun will help the game out. After all, I see many comments saying things are too easy, or too hard/not rewarding...so satisfactory of one of those would at least help things out. One more week of PTS if possible seems like it would do some good. Especially for bringing players back, as well as them/everyone having fun again. From what I can tell, that is something the game needs, so please devs and whoever else reads this and other PTS stuff...make this event as crazy as possible!
    "Knowledge is Power" however "With great power, comes great responsibility", and so one must tread carefully with life. I would advise you not follow me, unless you want to be guided to holes in the ground and have your video game character die. I am just your mysterious guide. That is all that needs to be known down here. Defiance!

  4. #4
    Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2017
    Location
    Deep in space
    Posts
    296
    My eyes are bleeding! Make it stop! X_X

    Lol I like what I read. :d I'll continue reading the rest later tho!

  5. #5
    Member Sal Fireguard's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Location
    South of Heaven
    Posts
    376
    Not sure you will get that much teamwork out on the live servers to deal with this but that being said... I did find it interesting to get a group of mobs to follow me away from the pack where I could take them on alone and in more my play style. Played right a few players can pull the mobs apart into groups that are more manageable for lower level players to join the fray. Granted on PTS so far I am only a 3k level player so that will be different from live where I am at a much higher level. However I can see that even a group of people that are lower level will be able to manage if they start to get some separation from that main mob group spawn.

    Of course also using a balance of shield and armor nano's works well to take down the various mob types. I am using an Atomizer (Electric nano) and a Retaliator (Corrosive) and that seems to work well for me and my play style on these. I have lost a lot of faith in piercing nano's and may have a quick go but you can still rely on some good old fashioned shield and armor nano's to take things down fast. Just my opinion of course.

    Oh yes I would really like to see some goal at the end rather than just thinning the herd till the clock runs out. Just a thought is all.
    Quoting Crasher; "You're really not even trying, anymore."

    Really lad it is just a lack of consideration and communication as always. In the larger scheme of things their customers do not matter.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Sal Fireguard View Post
    Played right a few players can pull the mobs apart into groups that are more manageable for lower level players to join the fray. Granted on PTS so far I am only a 3k level player so that will be different from live where I am at a much higher level. However I can see that even a group of people that are lower level will be able to manage if they start to get some separation from that main mob group spawn.
    Sal... in D13... if low Ego level players left the individual core or final's perimeter circle, then they LOST the game's Ego boost raising them to TL 10 or 11, instantly became weaker and do less damage. On 2050's PTS currently you do not see a similar D13 style PR loadout reading on the top left raising to match the level you've been boosted to, which would be 4000 if you were fighting in SF.

    While you are in the 3k region, I suggest you carefully watch the damage numbers you are doing to the mob right as you back out of those circles... to see if they lessen. When I tested it myself last week, they did. This could use some testing and verification. I'm 5k now and no longer can.

    2050 PC/NA Founder: Babydoll (with permission from Professor Chaos) aka Babydahl, Bloody Natasha, Kylarran in Defiance
    Defiance PC/NA Founders: Professor Chaos and Iron Death, RIP brother

  7. #7
    Member Sal Fireguard's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Location
    South of Heaven
    Posts
    376
    I am over 4k PR now so I doubt it will be a valid test now. But as I recall I was still dropping stuff as fast as when I was in the core. Might be that they widened the core a bit as mobs will follow quite a ways before they run back to the core to heal.What is shown on your minimap may not reflect the actual core size is my guess.

    I did switch back over to the Engineer class and tested the artemis turret a bit as the mech is still bugged. I think that most players will end up using the turret more in live as that ammo and health fill up is a huge deal when faced with such a heavy load of mobs.

    The roll speed up is excellent. Just enough to get clear of a bad situation. Lets you reposition fast to take on another group as well.

    The Mine field is a really good tool in the kit for taking down a lot of small class enemies fast that are rushing you. I can see this will make short work of things like Skitterlings easier as well.

    Overall the engineer is well balanced and if the Mech is fixed then it should be near ready to go. Be nice to see a Matrix group for that class to help out a bit with boosting some of the abilities or making the turrets stay around just a little longer.

    Oh and I try not to make any real comparisons to D13 as they have changed enough that D2050 is a new game. Fact is that when I do go back and play my character on D13 it just feels wooden and clunky to me now. That says a lot to how far 2050 has come as a game engine overall.
    Quoting Crasher; "You're really not even trying, anymore."

    Really lad it is just a lack of consideration and communication as always. In the larger scheme of things their customers do not matter.

  8. #8
    Member Sal Fireguard's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Location
    South of Heaven
    Posts
    376
    OK tested at 4k. I drew a group from the circle and as they and I left that I was still doing the exact same damage as I was hitting them inside that zone. So I do not think that matters.
    Quoting Crasher; "You're really not even trying, anymore."

    Really lad it is just a lack of consideration and communication as always. In the larger scheme of things their customers do not matter.

  9. #9
    Member Guider's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2018
    Location
    It is a Mystery~
    Posts
    720
    Quote Originally Posted by Sal Fireguard View Post
    OK tested at 4k. I drew a group from the circle and as they and I left that I was still doing the exact same damage as I was hitting them inside that zone. So I do not think that matters.
    have to be below them to get brought up. like 3749 and below you would be able to see it happening.
    "Knowledge is Power" however "With great power, comes great responsibility", and so one must tread carefully with life. I would advise you not follow me, unless you want to be guided to holes in the ground and have your video game character die. I am just your mysterious guide. That is all that needs to be known down here. Defiance!

  10. #10
    Member Sal Fireguard's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Location
    South of Heaven
    Posts
    376
    Ahhh I see. Well sorry as before I had the task of looking into it I was already over 4k and well on my way to 5k. Wish I could have been more help but what was asked I was not looking for an answer to at that time.

    I do however hope that it is all good when it hits live.
    Quoting Crasher; "You're really not even trying, anymore."

    Really lad it is just a lack of consideration and communication as always. In the larger scheme of things their customers do not matter.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts