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  1. #1
    Member twowolves80's Avatar
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    Are There Gamigo Devs Actually Reading This Forum?

    Just like the title says. Heard a lot of back and forth about how there's exactly 0 devs working on Defiance anymore, which shows that Gamigo can't see the forest from the trees. They're sitting on a gold mine, and all it would take to make it competitive with triple-A titles is a handful of new-hire devs making their bones by working on this older game.

    If any actually read this forum, I would love to hear from them.
    "Death inspires me like a dog inspires a rabbit." --Twenty One Pilots, Heavy, Dirty Soul

    "We each owe a death. There are no exceptions. But oh, God, sometimes the Green Mile seems so long." --Paul Edgecomb

    Who am I? Just a rolling stone, gathering no moss; a fool who knows nothing, only that he's lost. --tw

  2. #2
    Member crasher's Avatar
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    No.
    They're too busy deving games that Gamigo cares about.
    These are just my opinions.
    I have lots of opinions.
    Some of them, on occasion, people have agreed with.
    I do not trust those people.

    NA/pc.
    2013:
    Mid E-5XXX main, but I played 26+ 'toons from E400 to E5500. (Dormant)
    2050: Lvl 499X main

  3. #3
    Member twowolves80's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by crasher View Post
    No.
    They're too busy deving games that Gamigo cares about.


    lmao Go figure. Like I said, forest from the trees. They're sitting on a sleeper. What is the issue? I don't get it. Does the game engine suck so bad to write code for? Is it too hard to work with? Seriously, if the Gamigo devs truly give zero jeks, then release their toolkit they use as a beta, wall off the pay system so it cannot be tampered with (no different than Fallout 4), and let the modders do what they do best while they sit back and reap the benefits of the modders' work.

    I cannot fathom how they're letting this opportunity for mad cash flow just slip through their fingers. There is literally no other game out there like Defiance. None. And none with a dedicated fan base and as solid a UI and engine as Defiance. The bugs can be worked out; developer apathy, however, must be burned out by firings, suspensions, and layoffs. Cut the dead weight, put your new hirelings on Defiance to earn their way to other games, and watch it grow. If they even paid the slightest attention to it, they'd immediately see instant profit.

    Smh...such a jekking shame that they are letting a great game turn to absolute shtako and for what? Peanuts in the bit store? Pff. They could be making so much more for minimal effort.
    "Death inspires me like a dog inspires a rabbit." --Twenty One Pilots, Heavy, Dirty Soul

    "We each owe a death. There are no exceptions. But oh, God, sometimes the Green Mile seems so long." --Paul Edgecomb

    Who am I? Just a rolling stone, gathering no moss; a fool who knows nothing, only that he's lost. --tw

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by twowolves80 View Post
    developer apathy, however, must be burned out by firings, suspensions, and layoffs. Cut the dead weight



    gamigo beat you to the punch and already ditched most, if not all the devs who had a clue wtf defiance is.
    Liam Devlin - Leader/Chaos Crew D50

    "To boldy go where no fist has gone before"

  5. #5
    Member twowolves80's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Fenian View Post
    gamigo beat you to the punch and already ditched most, if not all the devs who had a clue wtf defiance is.
    The problem is, they threw the baby out with the bathwater. Doesn't matter. Put the hirelings on it. Make them earn their wings by designing content for Defiance.

    Or, you know, just release a tool kit akin to the GECK.
    "Death inspires me like a dog inspires a rabbit." --Twenty One Pilots, Heavy, Dirty Soul

    "We each owe a death. There are no exceptions. But oh, God, sometimes the Green Mile seems so long." --Paul Edgecomb

    Who am I? Just a rolling stone, gathering no moss; a fool who knows nothing, only that he's lost. --tw

  6. #6
    Member crasher's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by twowolves80 View Post
    The problem is, they threw the baby out with the bathwater. Doesn't matter. Put the hirelings on it. Make them earn their wings by designing content for Defiance.

    Or, you know, just release a tool kit akin to the GECK.
    I agree that a toolkit would be useful to the helpful do-bees to ferret out code for fixes.
    And that works great in stand-alone games.
    Creating cheat codes wouldn't matter in a game you play alone.

    This, being an MMO, with lots of people who all have their cards playing in the same game at the same time - a toolkit would make a lot/all of the intellectual property for the game available to more of the low skilled hackers who would have a harder time figuring that stuff out for themselves.

    Add to that you'd have to have a few devs on their end to go through any submitted code for backdoors/traps/bombs in the code that would open the game to things like intentional crashes and fishing for people's info on their own HDDs/SSDs, so it wouldn't be free of company overhead then, either.

    Figure out how to prevent that - and you might have a viable proposal.
    These are just my opinions.
    I have lots of opinions.
    Some of them, on occasion, people have agreed with.
    I do not trust those people.

    NA/pc.
    2013:
    Mid E-5XXX main, but I played 26+ 'toons from E400 to E5500. (Dormant)
    2050: Lvl 499X main

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by crasher View Post
    I agree that a toolkit would be useful to the helpful do-bees to ferret out code for fixes.
    And that works great in stand-alone games.
    Creating cheat codes wouldn't matter in a game you play alone.

    This, being an MMO, with lots of people who all have their cards playing in the same game at the same time - a toolkit would make a lot/all of the intellectual property for the game available to more of the low skilled hackers who would have a harder time figuring that stuff out for themselves.

    Add to that you'd have to have a few devs on their end to go through any submitted code for backdoors/traps/bombs in the code that would open the game to things like intentional crashes and fishing for people's info on their own HDDs/SSDs, so it wouldn't be free of company overhead then, either.

    Figure out how to prevent that - and you might have a viable proposal.

    in other words forget it, never happen. The mooks can't be bothered NOW to fix anything remotely simple unless it effects their bottom line...and even then it takes the ages to get in gear.
    Liam Devlin - Leader/Chaos Crew D50

    "To boldy go where no fist has gone before"

  8. #8
    Member twowolves80's Avatar
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    Are both of you forgetting it has already been done? Allow me to introduce you.



    They have a pay system on bethesda.net and still have the GECK out. If modders really wanted to, they'd hack it for an .esp file or .ini tweak that would allow them to game the pay system. Know what happened? They did, and trade it on shtaki mod sites.

    Know what it did to Bethesda's bottom line? Absolutely nothing.

    They're in the minority, and no one cares because like Gamigo, they sell trash with an occasional gem thrown in. They've gotten better in their offerings as a result of that pressure. And now, as a result, make so much money that Todd Howard's bank called again to tell him that he can't rent any more space in the vault at the local credit union he uses, so he's gonna need to come pick up his bags of krugerands and store them elsewhere.

    The same process would work in reverse on a server because the tool kit would be restricted by it's hard-coding to only ever be able to upload to a beta server via bash tags on all the assets, along with locking them in an archive that the EULA expressly forbids tampering with. You can copy assets to build new content, but you can't modify the original assets in the archive.

    Then, you have a dev master keep an eye on the beta server through a query system set up so they can search for terms when they need something. For instance, devs need some new buildings for an official DLC, so they harvest some buildings by searching for terms like, "Building" and "Structure" and the query system looks for those bash tags in the uploaded mods. Then, they put a generic thank you to all the modders and the modders whose buildings appeared in the footnotes, and send those whose buildings were used some bits and bit trash, some Gamigo swag like hats and whatnot, and a form thank you letter that they can use later on when and if they decide to pursue a career in video games (and some do). That would generate all the good will you'd ever need, rocket Defiance to a triple-A status that Game Informer would pick up on, and the rest, as they say, would be history.

    "Death inspires me like a dog inspires a rabbit." --Twenty One Pilots, Heavy, Dirty Soul

    "We each owe a death. There are no exceptions. But oh, God, sometimes the Green Mile seems so long." --Paul Edgecomb

    Who am I? Just a rolling stone, gathering no moss; a fool who knows nothing, only that he's lost. --tw

  9. #9
    Member crasher's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by twowolves80 View Post
    Are both of you forgetting it has already been done? Allow me to introduce you.



    They have a pay system on bethesda.net and still have the GECK out. If modders really wanted to, they'd hack it for an .esp file or .ini tweak that would allow them to game the pay system. Know what happened? They did, and trade it on shtaki mod sites.

    Know what it did to Bethesda's bottom line? Absolutely nothing.

    They're in the minority, and no one cares because like Gamigo, they sell trash with an occasional gem thrown in. They've gotten better in their offerings as a result of that pressure. And now, as a result, make so much money that Todd Howard's bank called again to tell him that he can't rent any more space in the vault at the local credit union he uses, so he's gonna need to come pick up his bags of krugerands and store them elsewhere.

    The same process would work in reverse on a server because the tool kit would be restricted by it's hard-coding to only ever be able to upload to a beta server via bash tags on all the assets, along with locking them in an archive that the EULA expressly forbids tampering with. You can copy assets to build new content, but you can't modify the original assets in the archive.

    Then, you have a dev master keep an eye on the beta server through a query system set up so they can search for terms when they need something. For instance, devs need some new buildings for an official DLC, so they harvest some buildings by searching for terms like, "Building" and "Structure" and the query system looks for those bash tags in the uploaded mods. Then, they put a generic thank you to all the modders and the modders whose buildings appeared in the footnotes, and send those whose buildings were used some bits and bit trash, some Gamigo swag like hats and whatnot, and a form thank you letter that they can use later on when and if they decide to pursue a career in video games (and some do). That would generate all the good will you'd ever need, rocket Defiance to a triple-A status that Game Informer would pick up on, and the rest, as they say, would be history.


    Fallout4 is an inapplicable comparison.
    Fallout4 was released as a subscriber model, wholly owned by Bethesda.

    Defiance was subsidized and partly owned by The Sci/Fi channel, and was released as a 'Buy the game, never pay a sub' model.
    They were on an 'Absolutely release on a set date' contract with Sci/Fi to coincide with the TV show release.
    And they quickly ran into monetary probs after launch (before the game was actually finished, they planned on finishing the coding for the rest of the game after launch, and polish up all the code/bugs during that process.) which forced them to let almost all the devs (who knew how to tie up all the loose/unfinished content threads) go.

    The game was sold to players with the proviso that it was free to play after purchase.
    That was set in stone.

    They never expected to have to charge a sub to finance it, and couldn't reverse course after introduction afterwards.
    At that point there were not enough people left to fix the game and dev the promised 5 DLCs.


    Fallout4 had an income stream, Defiance had far less money to work with after release and they were on the roller-coaster to hell we all dealt with for the next few years because of that.

    It was always too late to change course.

    No way was there ever going to be a budget to make a dev kit available for the game like Bethesda did, and there was never a pathway for them to share the intellectual property that Sci/Fi was part owner of, and there was never a way for them to administer a dev kit either with no infrastructure of devs to oversee it.

    We even had a decent customer service department for weeks after release, and all of those people were let go to cut costs shortly after release.
    The game never had in-game Game Managers, either, which left us completely open to the hacking and exploit issues we've had to live with all the this time that Bethesda was able to keep a tight fist on.
    These are just my opinions.
    I have lots of opinions.
    Some of them, on occasion, people have agreed with.
    I do not trust those people.

    NA/pc.
    2013:
    Mid E-5XXX main, but I played 26+ 'toons from E400 to E5500. (Dormant)
    2050: Lvl 499X main

  10.   Click here to go to the next Defiance Team post in this thread.   #10
    Community Manager Medjed's Avatar
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    Please refrain from discussing other games on a Defiance forum. I pass info back and forth often enough to confirm that developers know every single issue that bothers us the community.

    We don’t know what will get done in the future and if the game will become better or worse but it’s not a reason to compare different companies. Gamigo is not a bad guy here, Defiance has some difficulties with its bugs but we didn't hit the rock bottom.

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