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  1. #11
    Member KevinVonBach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Medjed View Post
    we didn't hit the rock bottom.
    Respectfully disagree with this comment.

    Lack of activity here, and fewer players actually playing the game would prove otherwise.
    Defiance 2050 = 2018's worst cash grab. 100% fact.
    Medjed: "Trust me, we will do our best to avoid any unanswered questions."
    Imagine trying to peddle bit store trash instead of fixing the game in 2020.

  2. #12
    Member twowolves80's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Medjed View Post
    Please refrain from discussing other games on a Defiance forum. I pass info back and forth often enough to confirm that developers know every single issue that bothers us the community.

    We don’t know what will get done in the future and if the game will become better or worse but it’s not a reason to compare different companies. Gamigo is not a bad guy here, Defiance has some difficulties with its bugs but we didn't hit the rock bottom.
    What on earth are you talking about? No one is contrasting Bugthesda to Gamigo beyond showing that the process can work. No one is calling out Gamigo, either, or bashing them. What is being stated is that there is, however narrow, a pathway out of this mess, but it requires someone taking a chance on it. Besides, how are we supposed to know if a game is good or not if we don't compare it to others? I'm simply saying, incorporate the other company's methodology in terms of modding the game--make Defiance quasi-moddable through a thorough vetting process (Nexusmods uses a process like this to ensure no mods are uploaded to the site with malware or bugs) by way of a sequestered beta server and a GECK-like toolkit released to premium subscribers that only has access to the beta server and only if you're a subscriber. Problem solved.

    And Crasher, I already stated (or thought I did) that the process could be similar, despite the games being two different pay models. SyFy channel no longer owns the Defiance properties, I don't believe, or if they do, it's probably some kind of trust so they can keep collecting residuals, but that doesn't preclude them from re-releasing the game. Point is, if we can come up with a proposal that makes enough sense and clearly shows a pathway to triple A status, they may consider it with more gravitas than us simply barking at the moon.

    Regardless, there's nothing stopping them from offering a premium upgrade for a pittance each month to hardcore fans to become part of the beta test crew. They already have a public test server for content for the PC version. So they are already set up for it. Not only that, Gamigo is run by a board of executives, and all they care about is the bottom line. "How can I have bank trucks fill my indoor swimming pool with cash like Todd Howard?" is probably the main topic at meetings. Same for their shareholders.

    But you have to invest. You have to be willing to take a risk and be innovative. It wouldn't be that much of a risk to set up a small beta server and release a toolkit to premium players who've bought into the beta testing program. Yeah, it's a PITA to come up with a toolkit, but it shouldn't be that difficult since they probably already have an in-house program they use for this game that they could adopt and tweak to wall off the pay system by hard coding it in the file archive. Ennumerate in the EULA that any tampering with it beyond testing it for exploits to patch is prohibited and will result in banning. You'll get a few morons who will test Gamigo and get smacked so hard with the ban hammer that not even OneAngryGamer can find them, but the majority of us won't, and we will be the ones driving Gamigo's profits into the stratosphere. Once the toolkit is released, they still maintain autonomy over the servers because you would hardcode the toolkit to the beta server only. Any attempts to upload any material to the main servers by any methods that circumvents this process is ban-worthy and prosecutable under the law. Simple as that. Gamigo then says, "It's time for another patch! Let's see what the modders have come up with that we can include." They comb the beta server, find any good stuff they like (which would be tested and proven clean of exploits and malware on the beta server before it ever migrates to the official servers), and then release it in an official patch.

    The devs, in turn, would draw on the new material and bug fixes for free (as outlined in the EULA) and incorporate it as they see fit, if at all. Any "payment" to the modder in the form of bit trash, Gamigo swag, and anything else that is pennies for Gamigo is a gratuity and completely voluntary on their part, but then again, so is modding on ours--the consumers. However, if they played along and sent swag to their modders, they'd be outsmarting Beth Softworks by using their own methods to steal away their consumer demographic, and rightfully so after that canvas bag fiasco. That free swag would show up in youtube videos, on facebook groups, and modding communities like on the nexus (and here if they opened it up), which means that's a huge amount of free advertisement for Gamigo. "Oh, they're the ones who have that game Defiance? I love that game! Let's go see what else they make I might be interested in buying!"



    I fully imagine graphical tweaks and bug squashing would take precedence over new content for the first six months or so, and meanwhile, players would be having a wth? moment as the Defiance world around them suddenly grows more detailed and less error-prone, full of fresh content and new missions. Plus, it would cement Gamigo's place as a triple-A producer, and generate even more profit as quality content keeps being generated by the community, free-of-charge to Gamigo (or nearly so, once overhead costs have been recouped for the toolkit).

    You cannot put a price on good will. And it absolutely is worth its weight in gold in the gaming world. That good will in turn drive profits long after the game's relevance has expired, as has happened with every single game Bethesda put out since Fallout 3. It would be hard to argue that Skyrim is no longer a profitable property when the modding community is still bug-patching it, and pushing it far beyond the wildest dreams of the Frostbite engine designers, and it's still selling like hot-cakes twelve years later. Now, imagine that same devotion to Defiance. The modding community is huge, and it is always hungry for The Next Big Thing. Yes, Gamigo might have to tweak their pay system a bit (and I for one would pay a one-time buy-in or a small monthly fee to have access to a beta server to test mods and create new content for the chance of it appearing in an official patch), but it would be worth it in the end.

    Defiance stands poised to forcefully challenge Bethesda's supremacy. The fact that the name of the game is Defiance is the ironic icing on the cake.

    The thing to remember is that there is nothing out there like Defiance. Sure, there's some MMOs similar, but the UI sucks, or the controls are complete shtako, or they're full of bugs and hackers. Defiance's longevity is due to ease of use, how insanely fun the runners and rollers are and the fact that you can run mofos over, and the size of the map that is completely open world. There's so much empty space--fill it! Canon? What canon? The show is ovah! Nothing stopping them from "growing" it organically while staying true to the theme of the original show. Wouldn't it be easier to grow it thusly with the backing of a huge modding community?

    If you think that the modders like Tannin and his cohort (the guy who designed the Mod Organizer and Mod Organizer 2 programs for modding Beth games) won't take up the call if a toolkit is released, you're deluding yourself. Modders would jump ship just for the opportunity to say they did. Put your toolkit on the Nexus, and all the Steamers will come running. It would just be a matter of time before the Unofficial Defiance Patch hit the webz, and it would be all down-hill from that point on. Better graphics, faster bug patching, devs with more time to design actual content, not just design events to push bit store trash...the future of Defiance is golden if they have a little faith in it.

    You just gotta Bo-lieve!

    "Death inspires me like a dog inspires a rabbit." --Twenty One Pilots, Heavy, Dirty Soul

    "We each owe a death. There are no exceptions. But oh, God, sometimes the Green Mile seems so long." --Paul Edgecomb

    Who am I? Just a rolling stone, gathering no moss; a fool who knows nothing, only that he's lost. --tw

  3. #13
    Member KevinVonBach's Avatar
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    Off topic, but well done on managing to fit a Bo Dallas reference in there. XD
    Defiance 2050 = 2018's worst cash grab. 100% fact.
    Medjed: "Trust me, we will do our best to avoid any unanswered questions."
    Imagine trying to peddle bit store trash instead of fixing the game in 2020.

  4. #14
    Member twowolves80's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KevinVonBach View Post
    Off topic, but well done on managing to fit a Bo Dallas reference in there. XD
    "Death inspires me like a dog inspires a rabbit." --Twenty One Pilots, Heavy, Dirty Soul

    "We each owe a death. There are no exceptions. But oh, God, sometimes the Green Mile seems so long." --Paul Edgecomb

    Who am I? Just a rolling stone, gathering no moss; a fool who knows nothing, only that he's lost. --tw

  5. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by twowolves80 View Post
    What on earth are you talking about? No one is contrasting Bugthesda to Gamigo beyond showing that the process can work. No one is calling out Gamigo, either, or bashing them. What is being stated is that there is, however narrow, a pathway out of this mess, but it requires someone taking a chance on it. Besides, how are we supposed to know if a game is good or not if we don't compare it to others? I'm simply saying, incorporate the other company's methodology in terms of modding the game--make Defiance quasi-moddable through a thorough vetting process (Nexusmods uses a process like this to ensure no mods are uploaded to the site with malware or bugs) by way of a sequestered beta server and a GECK-like toolkit released to premium subscribers that only has access to the beta server and only if you're a subscriber. Problem solved.

    And Crasher, I already stated (or thought I did) that the process could be similar, despite the games being two different pay models. SyFy channel no longer owns the Defiance properties, I don't believe, or if they do, it's probably some kind of trust so they can keep collecting residuals, but that doesn't preclude them from re-releasing the game. Point is, if we can come up with a proposal that makes enough sense and clearly shows a pathway to triple A status, they may consider it with more gravitas than us simply barking at the moon.

    Regardless, there's nothing stopping them from offering a premium upgrade for a pittance each month to hardcore fans to become part of the beta test crew. They already have a public test server for content for the PC version. So they are already set up for it. Not only that, Gamigo is run by a board of executives, and all they care about is the bottom line. "How can I have bank trucks fill my indoor swimming pool with cash like Todd Howard?" is probably the main topic at meetings. Same for their shareholders.

    But you have to invest. You have to be willing to take a risk and be innovative. It wouldn't be that much of a risk to set up a small beta server and release a toolkit to premium players who've bought into the beta testing program. Yeah, it's a PITA to come up with a toolkit, but it shouldn't be that difficult since they probably already have an in-house program they use for this game that they could adopt and tweak to wall off the pay system by hard coding it in the file archive. Ennumerate in the EULA that any tampering with it beyond testing it for exploits to patch is prohibited and will result in banning. You'll get a few morons who will test Gamigo and get smacked so hard with the ban hammer that not even OneAngryGamer can find them, but the majority of us won't, and we will be the ones driving Gamigo's profits into the stratosphere. Once the toolkit is released, they still maintain autonomy over the servers because you would hardcode the toolkit to the beta server only. Any attempts to upload any material to the main servers by any methods that circumvents this process is ban-worthy and prosecutable under the law. Simple as that. Gamigo then says, "It's time for another patch! Let's see what the modders have come up with that we can include." They comb the beta server, find any good stuff they like (which would be tested and proven clean of exploits and malware on the beta server before it ever migrates to the official servers), and then release it in an official patch.

    The devs, in turn, would draw on the new material and bug fixes for free (as outlined in the EULA) and incorporate it as they see fit, if at all. Any "payment" to the modder in the form of bit trash, Gamigo swag, and anything else that is pennies for Gamigo is a gratuity and completely voluntary on their part, but then again, so is modding on ours--the consumers. However, if they played along and sent swag to their modders, they'd be outsmarting Beth Softworks by using their own methods to steal away their consumer demographic, and rightfully so after that canvas bag fiasco. That free swag would show up in youtube videos, on facebook groups, and modding communities like on the nexus (and here if they opened it up), which means that's a huge amount of free advertisement for Gamigo. "Oh, they're the ones who have that game Defiance? I love that game! Let's go see what else they make I might be interested in buying!"



    I fully imagine graphical tweaks and bug squashing would take precedence over new content for the first six months or so, and meanwhile, players would be having a wth? moment as the Defiance world around them suddenly grows more detailed and less error-prone, full of fresh content and new missions. Plus, it would cement Gamigo's place as a triple-A producer, and generate even more profit as quality content keeps being generated by the community, free-of-charge to Gamigo (or nearly so, once overhead costs have been recouped for the toolkit).

    You cannot put a price on good will. And it absolutely is worth its weight in gold in the gaming world. That good will in turn drive profits long after the game's relevance has expired, as has happened with every single game Bethesda put out since Fallout 3. It would be hard to argue that Skyrim is no longer a profitable property when the modding community is still bug-patching it, and pushing it far beyond the wildest dreams of the Frostbite engine designers, and it's still selling like hot-cakes twelve years later. Now, imagine that same devotion to Defiance. The modding community is huge, and it is always hungry for The Next Big Thing. Yes, Gamigo might have to tweak their pay system a bit (and I for one would pay a one-time buy-in or a small monthly fee to have access to a beta server to test mods and create new content for the chance of it appearing in an official patch), but it would be worth it in the end.

    Defiance stands poised to forcefully challenge Bethesda's supremacy. The fact that the name of the game is Defiance is the ironic icing on the cake.

    The thing to remember is that there is nothing out there like Defiance. Sure, there's some MMOs similar, but the UI sucks, or the controls are complete shtako, or they're full of bugs and hackers. Defiance's longevity is due to ease of use, how insanely fun the runners and rollers are and the fact that you can run mofos over, and the size of the map that is completely open world. There's so much empty space--fill it! Canon? What canon? The show is ovah! Nothing stopping them from "growing" it organically while staying true to the theme of the original show. Wouldn't it be easier to grow it thusly with the backing of a huge modding community?

    If you think that the modders like Tannin and his cohort (the guy who designed the Mod Organizer and Mod Organizer 2 programs for modding Beth games) won't take up the call if a toolkit is released, you're deluding yourself. Modders would jump ship just for the opportunity to say they did. Put your toolkit on the Nexus, and all the Steamers will come running. It would just be a matter of time before the Unofficial Defiance Patch hit the webz, and it would be all down-hill from that point on. Better graphics, faster bug patching, devs with more time to design actual content, not just design events to push bit store trash...the future of Defiance is golden if they have a little faith in it.

    You just gotta Bo-lieve!

    Gameplanet's Universal, the Role Of A Game Traveler, (truely), is to Surpass default's embezzlement definitions of a Group, which Summary Reviews into Graduating to Unique, since as a true Game Traveler, Game World's Imaginative Formula Project Ascension/Dreamers, out-thinking current or arriving problematicals, founder around any solution, but holding hands/Game Travelers forgotten it's creativity, including Game World's Language Celebration.

    However, creativity's definitions should never arrive, or kneel before Group Creativity. I would like to sustain belief, Gameplanet's Healthier than Reality's Imaginary.

    (There's Assisting Game World's Creativities, And There's Interfering With Gameplanet's Creativity)...,

    (Meaning, Defiance Universal Being Comparison, Or Adoption Of Other Game Universal's Systematic Configurations, Isn't Creativity's Definitions If Mentality Zodiac Can't Adventure Beyond Group's Technicality Defaults).....

  6. #16
    Member twowolves80's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bushede Jade View Post
    Gameplanet's Universal, the Role Of A Game Traveler, (truely), is to Surpass default's embezzlement definitions of a Group, which Summary Reviews into Graduating to Unique, since as a true Game Traveler, Game World's Imaginative Formula Project Ascension/Dreamers, out-thinking current or arriving problematicals, founder around any solution, but holding hands/Game Travelers forgotten it's creativity, including Game World's Language Celebration.

    However, creativity's definitions should never arrive, or kneel before Group Creativity. I would like to sustain belief, Gameplanet's Healthier than Reality's Imaginary.

    (There's Assisting Game World's Creativities, And There's Interfering With Gameplanet's Creativity)...,

    (Meaning, Defiance Universal Being Comparison, Or Adoption Of Other Game Universal's Systematic Configurations, Isn't Creativity's Definitions If Mentality Zodiac Can't Adventure Beyond Group's Technicality Defaults).....
    Um...I think something may have been lost in translation...
    "Death inspires me like a dog inspires a rabbit." --Twenty One Pilots, Heavy, Dirty Soul

    "We each owe a death. There are no exceptions. But oh, God, sometimes the Green Mile seems so long." --Paul Edgecomb

    Who am I? Just a rolling stone, gathering no moss; a fool who knows nothing, only that he's lost. --tw

  7. #17
    Member crasher's Avatar
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    Bushede Jade speaks on a different plane than most mortals.

    It's kind of like reading the I Ching.
    These are just my opinions.
    I have lots of opinions.
    Some of them, on occasion, people have agreed with.
    I do not trust those people.

    NA/pc.
    2013:
    Mid E-5XXX main, but I played 26+ 'toons from E400 to E5500. (Dormant)
    2050: Lvl 499X main

  8. #18
    Member KevinVonBach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by crasher View Post
    It's kind of like reading the I Ching.
    Only difference being, people actually read & care about the I Ching.
    Defiance 2050 = 2018's worst cash grab. 100% fact.
    Medjed: "Trust me, we will do our best to avoid any unanswered questions."
    Imagine trying to peddle bit store trash instead of fixing the game in 2020.

  9. #19
    Member twowolves80's Avatar
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    I just had another thought, too.

    If the devs grow the game organically like I mentioned above, the SyFy network, if they still own it, might come around to re-launching the show if the game goes hot again. Lmao TV show inspired a game that outlived the show, and then resurrected said show from the dead after game became insanely popular again.

    Meta to the max.
    "Death inspires me like a dog inspires a rabbit." --Twenty One Pilots, Heavy, Dirty Soul

    "We each owe a death. There are no exceptions. But oh, God, sometimes the Green Mile seems so long." --Paul Edgecomb

    Who am I? Just a rolling stone, gathering no moss; a fool who knows nothing, only that he's lost. --tw

  10. #20
    Member DEATHBRINGER210's Avatar
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    so if they read our bug reports. when are the fixes rolling out?

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