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  1. #21
    Member KevinVonBach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by crasher View Post
    In the end, you can bang on the door all day long, but they have to be willing to even get up off the sofa and ask what you want.
    100% this

    I really had hopes that the Trion buyout would improve things at the time, but yeah... still nothing to write home about.
    Defiance 2050 = 2018's worst cash grab. 100% fact.
    Medjed: "Trust me, we will do our best to avoid any unanswered questions."
    Imagine trying to peddle bit store trash instead of fixing the game in 2020.

  2. #22
    Member twowolves80's Avatar
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    Then perhaps Trion should be buying back their IP from the digital pawnbroker Gamigo so we can get the show back on the road...
    "Death inspires me like a dog inspires a rabbit." --Twenty One Pilots, Heavy, Dirty Soul

    "We each owe a death. There are no exceptions. But oh, God, sometimes the Green Mile seems so long." --Paul Edgecomb

    Who am I? Just a rolling stone, gathering no moss; a fool who knows nothing, only that he's lost. --tw

  3. #23
    Member crasher's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by twowolves80 View Post
    Then perhaps Trion should be buying back their IP from the digital pawnbroker Gamigo so we can get the show back on the road...
    As far as we know - TRION was bought out in it's entirety by Gamigo, and the former owners of TRION couldn't have been happier to wash their hands.

    You'd have to scare up a different pigeon.
    These are just my opinions.
    I have lots of opinions.
    Some of them, on occasion, people have agreed with.
    I do not trust those people.

    NA/pc.
    2013:
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  4. #24
    Member KevinVonBach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by twowolves80 View Post
    Then perhaps Trion should be buying back their IP...
    Sorry, but you're starting to lose me here... because crasher hit the nail on the head.
    Defiance 2050 = 2018's worst cash grab. 100% fact.
    Medjed: "Trust me, we will do our best to avoid any unanswered questions."
    Imagine trying to peddle bit store trash instead of fixing the game in 2020.

  5. #25
    Member twowolves80's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by crasher View Post
    As far as we know - TRION was bought out in it's entirety by Gamigo, and the former owners of TRION couldn't have been happier to wash their hands.

    You'd have to scare up a different pigeon.
    Haha, are you saying that crow won't caw?

    Well, there's gotta be someone out there besides [censored]. That they have a monopoly on moddable games is enough; their recent behavior suggests that Todd Howard is aware of the existence of said monopoly..."ES 6 is going to be using a brand new, same old, 12 year old Frostbite engine!"

    What could possibly go wrong, other than, I dunno...people sick of the same LOD bugs in that game caused by the engine itself that haven't been addressed for over a decade suddenly deciding that Gamigo is their boy, and Defiance is their new frontier? If we could get people like Sheson and Tannin on-board, maybe they'd reconsider, especially considering how much weight those names carry across multiple games on multiple platforms. Hell, Sheson alone is as close to a digital god as most of us will ever come--his patches and work on the Vortex mod manager, as well as his work on MO and MO2, is nothing short of legendary.

    Well, thanks for letting me know Trion is no more...too bad DICE or Naughty Dog wouldn't pick it up...lol
    "Death inspires me like a dog inspires a rabbit." --Twenty One Pilots, Heavy, Dirty Soul

    "We each owe a death. There are no exceptions. But oh, God, sometimes the Green Mile seems so long." --Paul Edgecomb

    Who am I? Just a rolling stone, gathering no moss; a fool who knows nothing, only that he's lost. --tw

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by twowolves80 View Post
    That is the first point in which you are wrong. In the above-mentioned game that came out before the MMO, the above-mentioned company said vehicles were impossible in the game. Six months later, someone we all suspect f being a secret drone for that company wrote a mod that made it possible, and it works great. That took a very sophisticated bit of coding to do. He didn't get paid, he got only the recognition of others on Nexus. That's it.

    So I find your argument that only "professionals" who are getting "paid well" would want to write code. This guy above had to learn to write not only the scripting, but put it together with the proper trigger commands and everything so it would integrate with the Frostbite engine.



    I respectfully disagree. There's already a market for personalization--costumes, makeup, etc. What about all the bit trash in the store? All personalized stuff. Skins for weapons. Why not skins for cars? Why not be able to build your own vehicles out of a set of pre-built assets? Mix and match for different effects so you can not only run the enemy over, but slice them up with spinners on the wheels? People will pay for that, just as they already pay for clothes and everything else. Such sundries are huge in Japan in RPG games, and Japan is about 5 years ahead of us. This will become automated in the future, and a normal part of gaming. It's only avant-garde now because it's not yet been done in an MMO.



    Which is the point of this thread--to convince Gamigo there is a chance to catch lightning in a bottle.




    Making sarcastic suggestions does not further the thread. Gamigo is not going to sell it cheap when they still hold a contract with dodge to use dodge vehicles in their game. And I don't know where you come from, but I don't have six or seven figures just laying around to go venture investing.
    I won't address your whole thing, it would be to long for something that can be summarized by "You think there's money to be made by spending on defiance, I think you're wrong, gamigo seems to think you're wrong too".

    However, my suggestion to buy defiance's ip and make a go at it isn't sarcastic. Gamigo didn't buy trion's ip for defiance, they bought it for trove. They would probably sell defiance (both version) for a song. Pretty sure I could buy it without outside investors if I thought there was money to be made (I don't). So go for it. Pick up the phone and get a number. Here, I'll even give you the phone number of the corporate office in Hamburg: +49 40 411885. I've done it multiple times, sometimes you get a deal, sometimes you don't. Worst thing that can happen is a "not for sale" kind of number.

  7. #27
    Member crasher's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ICantAim View Post
    I won't address your whole thing, it would be to long for something that can be summarized by "You think there's money to be made by spending on defiance, I think you're wrong, gamigo seems to think you're wrong too".

    However, my suggestion to buy defiance's ip and make a go at it isn't sarcastic. Gamigo didn't buy trion's ip for defiance, they bought it for trove. They would probably sell defiance (both version) for a song. Pretty sure I could buy it without outside investors if I thought there was money to be made (I don't). So go for it. Pick up the phone and get a number. Here, I'll even give you the phone number of the corporate office in Hamburg: +49 40 411885. I've done it multiple times, sometimes you get a deal, sometimes you don't. Worst thing that can happen is a "not for sale" kind of number.
    The worst part about the bungled implementation of the original I.P. by TRION is that no matter how good it was in concept - no one will take a chance on something similar from scratch, and probably nobody would want to take on the dog and try to 'fix it right', either.

    The whole concept was/is poison anymore.
    These are just my opinions.
    I have lots of opinions.
    Some of them, on occasion, people have agreed with.
    I do not trust those people.

    NA/pc.
    2013:
    Mid E-5XXX main, but I played 26+ 'toons from E400 to E5500. (Dormant)
    2050: Lvl 499X main

  8. #28
    Member twowolves80's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by crasher View Post
    The worst part about the bungled implementation of the original I.P. by TRION is that no matter how good it was in concept - no one will take a chance on something similar from scratch, and probably nobody would want to take on the dog and try to 'fix it right', either.

    The whole concept was/is poison anymore.
    I don't buy it. Let's follow the current trend of personalizing everything in games to its logical conclusion. Same thing is happening with crafts and gifts right now. The maker-market is here, and 3D printers, laser engravers, etc, are being sold to home-bodies because everyone wants to personalize everything. Same thing in the games. That's why Gamigo rolled out all the additional skins, and all the extra bit trash, because there's obviously a market.

    When I say modding the game, let me define my terms. I don't mean being able to build something in the server and have it be persistent outside of your character. In other words, you can't build a Red Rocket fueling station in the server, log out, and then log back in to find it there still. No, the only modding for an MMO that would be profitable and fairly easy to implement would be two-fold:

    > First, anything the character carries or owns. So, vehicles, weapons, outfits, appearances, etc. That way, that data can be stored on the client-side, not server side, and basically the client-side would look like a giant grocery list of assets it calls into existence in pre-existing nodes upon character ingress. Eventually, since you would just be calling for specific pre-existing assets within the game, an algorithm would eventually be developed by someone somewhere for automating the review of these types of mods as you're not inserting anything into the game that would not already be there, you're just mixing and matching to create unique pieces in the TECS and then generating them upon ingress. Also, I feel it needs to be said that Gamigo is not the Nexus, so you would never see a Thomas the Tank mod in Defiance...lol That may be a good thing, though, now that I think about it...

    > Second, graphical tweaks and modifications. This would include atmospheric effects, LODs, etc. Some of these types of mods would necessarily have to be reviewed and tested by official devs before being included in official patches--things like resolution improvements, better textures maps, better compression formats, etc. Others, like UI changes, menu changes, that sort of thing that personalizes it to you alone, would eventually become automated like the first point.

    No matter what, it would get better and better each patch simply because there are modders out there who would do this work for nothing other than being able to pad their resume or for internet fame. So I don't see how in that regard it is obsolete. This doesn't take into account the fact that the UI and controls are still fairly solid after all this time, so that speaks to the game's underlying stability. Yeah, there are bugs, but most of those keep coming about from Gamigo trying to jam more crap into the game that is unnecessary until it ends up looking like a Jenga tower. Clean that up with some strategic pruning, and build from that point.

    It takes a lot more money to develop a game UI and control scheme, not to mention the rest of the game, than it does to take a pre-existing one and overhaul it or release a limited beta toolkit based off your own dev kit so others can while you collect the checks.
    "Death inspires me like a dog inspires a rabbit." --Twenty One Pilots, Heavy, Dirty Soul

    "We each owe a death. There are no exceptions. But oh, God, sometimes the Green Mile seems so long." --Paul Edgecomb

    Who am I? Just a rolling stone, gathering no moss; a fool who knows nothing, only that he's lost. --tw

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by twowolves80 View Post
    I don't buy it. Let's follow the current trend of personalizing everything in games to its logical conclusion. Same thing is happening with crafts and gifts right now. The maker-market is here, and 3D printers, laser engravers, etc, are being sold to home-bodies because everyone wants to personalize everything. Same thing in the games. That's why Gamigo rolled out all the additional skins, and all the extra bit trash, because there's obviously a market.

    When I say modding the game, let me define my terms. I don't mean being able to build something in the server and have it be persistent outside of your character. In other words, you can't build a Red Rocket fueling station in the server, log out, and then log back in to find it there still. No, the only modding for an MMO that would be profitable and fairly easy to implement would be two-fold:

    > First, anything the character carries or owns. So, vehicles, weapons, outfits, appearances, etc. That way, that data can be stored on the client-side, not server side, and basically the client-side would look like a giant grocery list of assets it calls into existence in pre-existing nodes upon character ingress. Eventually, since you would just be calling for specific pre-existing assets within the game, an algorithm would eventually be developed by someone somewhere for automating the review of these types of mods as you're not inserting anything into the game that would not already be there, you're just mixing and matching to create unique pieces in the TECS and then generating them upon ingress. Also, I feel it needs to be said that Gamigo is not the Nexus, so you would never see a Thomas the Tank mod in Defiance...lol That may be a good thing, though, now that I think about it...

    > Second, graphical tweaks and modifications. This would include atmospheric effects, LODs, etc. Some of these types of mods would necessarily have to be reviewed and tested by official devs before being included in official patches--things like resolution improvements, better textures maps, better compression formats, etc. Others, like UI changes, menu changes, that sort of thing that personalizes it to you alone, would eventually become automated like the first point.

    No matter what, it would get better and better each patch simply because there are modders out there who would do this work for nothing other than being able to pad their resume or for internet fame. So I don't see how in that regard it is obsolete. This doesn't take into account the fact that the UI and controls are still fairly solid after all this time, so that speaks to the game's underlying stability. Yeah, there are bugs, but most of those keep coming about from Gamigo trying to jam more crap into the game that is unnecessary until it ends up looking like a Jenga tower. Clean that up with some strategic pruning, and build from that point.

    It takes a lot more money to develop a game UI and control scheme, not to mention the rest of the game, than it does to take a pre-existing one and overhaul it or release a limited beta toolkit based off your own dev kit so others can while you collect the checks.
    Again, I won't address your whole post because it would be too long, but you're wrong on many counts:
    1-The game itself is run on the server. The only thing you have that is client side is graphics. Therefore, if all you can mod is client side, then all you can mod is graphics. In this case, you could very well have a thomas the tank gun that shoots little peppa pigs, while everyone else would just see a normal digger tnt. It would be a step up, as it would let me take away the awful vfx from PP/Nexus/soleptor detonator, but it wouldn't materially change the game. That would net almost 0 increase in revenue.

    2-You are wrong that it cost less to develop a devkit than a complete UI. You are also wrong that it's easy or cheap to overhaul a bloated software. I've been doing this for over a decade, and every time a client tells me he "just wants to fix a few bugs and add a few features" in a mangled up software, my first warning is that it'll most likely cost more than building from zero. I have yet to be wrong.

    3-Gamigo is not gonna spend even a dime on defiance. That has been made clear by their behavior. Crystal clear. Even the mods, which are barely paid minimum wage, are nowhere to be seen anymore.

  10. #30
    Member KevinVonBach's Avatar
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    Funny, just received an email from Humble Bumble that told me:

    "Don't miss out on the latest Trove additions with Humble Choice"

    And here we are, with nothing added in Defiance.
    Defiance 2050 = 2018's worst cash grab. 100% fact.
    Medjed: "Trust me, we will do our best to avoid any unanswered questions."
    Imagine trying to peddle bit store trash instead of fixing the game in 2020.

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