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  1. #31
    Member twowolves80's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ICantAim View Post
    Again, I won't address your whole post because it would be too long, but you're wrong on many counts:
    1-The game itself is run on the server. The only thing you have that is client side is graphics. Therefore, if all you can mod is client side, then all you can mod is graphics. In this case, you could very well have a thomas the tank gun that shoots little peppa pigs, while everyone else would just see a normal digger tnt. It would be a step up, as it would let me take away the awful vfx from PP/Nexus/soleptor detonator, but it wouldn't materially change the game. That would net almost 0 increase in revenue.

    2-You are wrong that it cost less to develop a devkit than a complete UI. You are also wrong that it's easy or cheap to overhaul a bloated software. I've been doing this for over a decade, and every time a client tells me he "just wants to fix a few bugs and add a few features" in a mangled up software, my first warning is that it'll most likely cost more than building from zero. I have yet to be wrong.

    3-Gamigo is not gonna spend even a dime on defiance. That has been made clear by their behavior. Crystal clear. Even the mods, which are barely paid minimum wage, are nowhere to be seen anymore.
    1. You materially misunderstand the thrust of my argument. Any mods that I would recommend would be ones that are stored client-side and when loaded, are seen by all. This is due to the mods being drawn ONLY from pre-existing assets within the game mashed together in new combinations to produce new assets. So yeah, while the game is ONLY on the server, that's the point. All the client-side would be storing would be the list of assets that generate from the server side once the character fully ingresses into the game (after the load screen). Thus, since the assets are stored on the server, and the asset lists for the mods are stored on the client-side, there's no conflict. The assets stay on the server; the instructions on combining those assets into the forms of the various mods are stored on the client side. Therefore, there most assuredly would be a market for it.

    Or are all these gamers spending real money on bit trash in the Defiance store only a phenomenon that doesn't repeat in other games...? Oh, right, there's [censored].net, which sells a crap ton of assets and mods for $1-2 to all the popular Steam games that are moddable. There's all the other MMOs where they offer personalizations through weapon skins, vehicle skins, armor skins, et cetera.

    Any graphical mods that alter the appearance of the game would be stored client-side since the elements like the sky and grass that you would be viewing through these mods can necessarily remain sequestered from the server to free up server space, and only need to affect the user. I envision this as mostly post-process effects (which are easier to apply than trying to force the game engine to accept volumetric lighting, godrays, etc.) to clean up the look of the game. This would include ENBs, higher resolution texture maps, etc. Now, if Gamigo saw some they liked and wanted to incorporate it into an official patch, even better. Then it would go from post-process on the client-side to an active in-game improvement running off the main servers.

    2. Care to explain to me what Trion's devs used to build the game, then...? Must have been completely built in binary with 0s and 1s, and line after line of code with no graphical interface whatsoever until the assets are injected into the game...psh. That don't even sound right saying it. Every game studio has its own proprietary dev kit already in existence. No one is going to simply start from scratch because of how many different game engines there are out there. Take the Unity engine, for instance. The Unity engine is built up with a pre-existing dev kit that can be used to build games from scratch. So what is the hurdle with Gamigo taking the dev kit used to develop Defiance and simply removing parts that players do not need access to (such as the pay system)? You've been doing this over a decade? For whom? Where at? For what company? You volunteered your background; let's see the credentials because rule 32: All statements must be backed up with proof, or they didn't happen.

    That still doesn't tell me how it's going to cost more to take a pre-existing dev kit and adapt it to the company's needs than to simply throw everything away and start fresh with a new game engine and all. My argument has always been that within Defiance, there already exists a pretty robust game engine and dynamics that could be adapted. Yeah, it will be expensive, but so was developing the Garden of Eden Creation Kit. And yet, as soon as the GECK came out, [censored] suddenly experienced a wave of fresh sales that continued year after year for their older games because of the modding community that sprung up around them.

    Yes, Gamigo is clearly not spending any money on Defiance. That has been the whole point of my argument: That we, as players, need to convince Gamigo TO spend money and time on this because this game is a hidden gem with a lot of potential that's being wasted. Yes, Gamigo will continue not spending one dime on this game when there is no one but myself lighting up the forums trying to get their attention and let them know they have a hidden gem on their hands. So I don't understand why you would think you attempting to prove that Gamigo is going to continue in this vein will somehow help get their attention. If you aren't interested in trying to drum up support and get their attention, why are you wasting time on me? Why waste any time on this game at all? I'd rather spend time lighting up the forums to get their attention than just grinding-grinding-grinding away.
    "Death inspires me like a dog inspires a rabbit." --Twenty One Pilots, Heavy, Dirty Soul

    "We each owe a death. There are no exceptions. But oh, God, sometimes the Green Mile seems so long." --Paul Edgecomb

    Who am I? Just a rolling stone, gathering no moss; a fool who knows nothing, only that he's lost. --tw

  2. #32
    Ok, it's obvious to me that you've never written single line of code and don't even have a basic idea of how anything works. So I'll just leave you with an offer: bet with me whether gamigo (or anyone) will make your idea real. Since you're admittedly broke, we can go for a small bet, like 10$ or 10 euros. 10 scheckels?

  3. #33
    Member twowolves80's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ICantAim View Post
    Ok, it's obvious to me that you've never written single line of code and don't even have a basic idea of how anything works. So I'll just leave you with an offer: bet with me whether gamigo (or anyone) will make your idea real. Since you're admittedly broke, we can go for a small bet, like 10$ or 10 euros. 10 scheckels?
    At this point, you're trolling. I don't care whether or not Gamigo does; the fact is, I am at least trying to come up with creative solutions. You, however, have offered nothing but criticism. Go lurk under some other bridge.
    "Death inspires me like a dog inspires a rabbit." --Twenty One Pilots, Heavy, Dirty Soul

    "We each owe a death. There are no exceptions. But oh, God, sometimes the Green Mile seems so long." --Paul Edgecomb

    Who am I? Just a rolling stone, gathering no moss; a fool who knows nothing, only that he's lost. --tw

  4. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by twowolves80 View Post
    At this point, you're trolling. I don't care whether or not Gamigo does; the fact is, I am at least trying to come up with creative solutions. You, however, have offered nothing but criticism. Go lurk under some other bridge.
    Funny, I think you're the one trolling. Your "creative solution" can be summarized by asking "spend a sh!tload of money" to a company that won't spend a dime. It's obvious that gamigo isn't interested in ANY solution (I'm not even sure they think there's a problem), let alone one that costs a boatload of money.

  5. #35
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    Sorry, got a message I had to wait to post and thought my reply had timed out, so the following post has a few spelling corrections and represents what I posted here originally.

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  6. #36
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    Hey twowolves80, while I've appreciated you impassioned threads and posts recently, I've tried to stay out of these sorts of discussions and concentrate on what I can do personally to help the game, in this case promotion through my Guide, YouTube channel and livestreaming. Like ICantAim, I'm a programmer/developer and database/systems engineer and with a basic understanding of Defiance and Defiance 2050's development methods and history it's difficult to not be negative regarding a number of your suggestions.

    I wrote my first lines of code in 1976 and have been employed as a developer in various capacities for most of my adult life. I've programmed games before, but long before the complexities of modern 3D, engine-based environments. Take what follows as mostly educated opinion.

    Defiance was built using a heavily modified version of the Gamebryo engine. It is not a specifically-designed MMO engine, and much of the difficulty at the time of launch of the original game was based around the netcode. Without an established massive online shooter library for the engine, this was ultimately Trion's greatest triumph as the game remains a smooth and responsive 3rd-person shooter experience. With a good connection and no server-side lag it plays as well as any offline shooter.

    Defiance was a huge swing for Trion, attempting to create a multimedia franchise. Because of this there was a lot of expense outside of mere development. Acquiring top above and below-the-line Hollywood talent was essential to delivering the television show and assets for the game. The voice acting (prior to the recasting for the later Season missions) remains exemplary along with the cutscenes, music and other production elements. There are 193 missions for the story alone meaning the game has enough content to compare favorably with open-world peers...in the single-player realm. It's the ambitions of the MMO space where we start to run into problems and where your suggestions as currently presented most likely don't consider the game's developmental structure.

    Because the game is an MMO, cross-platform and still partially tied to "last gen" hardware limitations, certain concessions were made. Some may have been made for expediency sake, others more likely tied to these issues. As an MMO much of the "work" of the game occurs on the server, both at the shard level for a player's current in-world existence, and at a macro level to manage database information to be pulled to the shard when needed. As you play the game many statistics are compiled in the background which must be sent to this macro level storage, such as kill counts and inventory items, in addition to all the shard data such as enemy locations and encounters spawning on the map. There is plenty of data stored client-side, such as appearance items, and some data is split such as projectile location and hit box detection. This last situation is directly responsible for exploits seen promarily on the PC version where aimbot and other tools manipulate the client-side data being sent to the server. At any rate the server-side of Defiance does not have the limits placed on the client-side and at the moment it is difficult to determine where some of those limitations come into play when planning out the sort of "mod tools" you've suggested.

    Let's begin with the easy stuff, and forgive the tangents but if I'm going down this road I feel the need to speak my peace. Client-side skinning is the easiest thing modders have access to, and could actually work on now. Soon after the original game's release a number of tools became available to strip the assets of the game's client-side files. In here you will find all of the objects Gamebryo needs to render the 3D world, from the terrain textures to the character models, these client-side assets could be edited to create new looks for many parts of the game. Actual telemetry data is still a question, as client-side hit box detection is a definite thing, yet on the earlier console generation you could drive into roadside railing that had yet to render in-world. As one would assume these objects are as permanent as the road itself, why do they not get rendered immediately? I bring this up for the forthcoming tools discussion, as without better knowledge of the object spawning tree designing a tool to meet your goals will be ultimately flawed regarding what has to be patched into the server and what will need to be added to the client-side files.

    Anyway, back to the textures. An accomplished 3D model texture designer could load up one of the in-game models into ZBrush or their favorite model painting tool, load an existing outfit or headgear texture, and create something new following the game's texture wrapping standard. As long as they created the appropriate alternatives for the three races and two genders, an entirely new appearance item could be shared in your imagined version of a "mod server" and eventually incorporated into the game through a patch. This is normally one of the primary methods to monetize MMOs, but here we start to run into the limitations of Defiance's design. Whether it a concession to the "last gen" or a huge miscalculation of the market (or some other reason) there are only two graphical customization options: Headgear which is limited to the head and hair models, and Outfits which apply to the rest of the character model. When you think of the massive number of customization options available in other MMOs, even really old ones like City of Heroes, Defiance is horribly limited in this sphere. Even compared to less ambitious single-player titles like Saints Row 3, where Volition received derision for stepping back from the detail afforded in Saints Row 2, Defiance comes up short. During the development of 2050, which we'll get to shortly, Trion could have directed Behavior to divide characters into parts so that torso, individual arms and other standard "body sections" could have their own appearance options. Dividing existing Outfits into constituent parts would have been easy enough.

    The same is true of the Emotes portion of the game, another area where monetization would normally be in the picture. Modders could take existing skeletal animations and modify them to create new Emotes, even within the limited two styles the game employs, single play and looped. With appropriate sound samples for all the voice combinations a new Emote could be created. Yet this was never done even when Trion still had developers and artists working on the game post-launch. If modders were to tackle this seemingly easy part of expanding the game's options, could their work even be integrated knowing all this? It's difficult to believe Trion was simply ignorant of this common method of monetization. I'd even argue that the controller-based method for quick Loadout switching, which can easily be triggered when you don't want it to, could be replaced with an Emote wheel and make role-playing and player interaction more varied.

    Ok, ok, I could go on forever, and that was just a couple of client-side modding scenarios. Let's get to the meat of the matter, new content, and the tools necessary so open that portion of the game to modders. Obviously tools were created to separate the ongoing work of developers from that of scenario designers and artists, and those are the tools you wish to leverage. The game is not like Second Life with an array of cross-development and design capabilities, it's bound to the existing objects and models. Even something like enemy AI may be separated from the scenario designer making the creation of certain kinds of new content difficult. But let's skip the complexities and explore a simpler tool, the Emergency designer. I'm assuming such a tool exists because Emergencies are one of the few encounters that have expanded in the background over the course of the game's life. In this theoretical imagining of such a tool you would choose environmental and enemy objects, place them within the defined bounding box of the Emergency engine, set triggers on enemy spawns and so forth. Let's take the lazy Far Cry map editor user example and create a simple death brawl. You place no environmental objects, set a Tanker, three Blitzers, two Rioters, a Viscera, a Bomber, two Troopers, a Blacklung, two Smelters and two Goldrushers to spawn at the start of the Emergency along the outer edges of the bounding box. You have a new Emergency. The player isn't going to get much action unless they are right there when the Emergency spawns as most of the enemies will have killed each other, but you get the gist. It's likely an existing tool, it probably doesn't have a lot of interface elements to deal with, and could generate loads of new content. Unfortunately it's content most players ignore, but it's an easy example of a tool that fits part of your wish and require little modification.

    Now we turn to a more complex issue, one where you'd assume a tool exists, but evidence suggests otherwise, or at least to such a tool being poorly designed: a Mission editor. This would seem like one of the most basic tools in the designer's arsenal, but the woeful lack of new story content means it's most likely not as robust as one would hope. Of course there could be something else at play which I'll get to in a moment. This hypothetical tool would create a series of database objects beginning with a Main Mission marker. There would be settings regarding its Map spawn conditions such as the Faction mission lines which do not appear until EGO 50, or the Volge mission which spawns only at Volge Sieges and no longer appears after the mission is completed. From this setup the designer would set a Mission description and rewards, then begin adding objects to the Mission's sequence. These could be as simple as going to a specified location or running a Conflict Site. In another lazy Far ry map maker example, you require the player to go to Pitfall Mine and pick up an object, go to Iron Demon Ranch and place it in the APS lock box, then go to Cooper's computer to interact then Mine 99 where the Conflict Site has to be completed to end the mission. The lazy designer picks an existing model to represent the object to be collected, the editor marks that the object disappears from the environment once interacted with, and no other assets are added as the Mission Objectives are displayed using the various text areas used for mission information. Okay, while lazy, they also pick a few canned EGO voice clips to play at various parts. A new mission is done. Pretty simple.

    If it were that simple it's hard to imagine why so few missions were added to the game outside of the DLC launches, which became the Faction mission lines in 2050. Wait, it's not hard to imagine. Go back to the commentary on Trion's ambitions. To truly add new content you need the full breath of a production team. You need new cutscenes. Sure, the engine most likely has an easy stage editor where these can be constructed. While such a task is far more complicated than the actual mission design, it's well within the capabilities of the modding community. Sourcing new character models and creating voice clips is also doable, though visions of another Hunt Down the Freeman make me shudder. It's doing these things at the same production quality as the original game that likely held Trion back, though it is possible the tool has limitations as well. That unknowable makes a core piece of new content creation a question mark. Is that tool robust enough in its current state, or is it tied to code outside the control of a scenario designer? While making a full tool to handle mission line creation would have been a top priority if I had been developing the game, the history of content added by Trion makes me question if an existing tool could be opened up to modders, and even if it could, what limitations could restrict their vision simply because of game engine systems?

    For example, what are the rules of instancing? You may know it as "Phase". If you've ever grouped with other players while playing the Main Story, you've likely seen them disappear, yet a faded green dot still appears on the minimap. Pulling up the Quick Menu offers a new choice, Join Phase, where you enter an "instanced" version of a map location. This can be confusing, so I apologize if you already understand this mechanic, but I want to cover it here. If you are doing Sniper's Ridge, phasing is never an issue. That Conflict Site and the Main Story Mission are identical, so you can wander in there at any time and mop up the Mutant as a lowly EGO 2 is trying out their Common Reaper LZ. But go to Ridgecrest Rescue and it's a different story. The Main Story mission "Safe No More" presents things differently, including cutscenes, the Advanced Weapon and more. If you are doing the Main Story mission with someone you will have to join their Phase, otherwise you see the Ridgecrest Rescue Conflict Site. Unlike Sniper's Ridge, you cannot wander into another player's story happening there.

    And yet it gets more complicated. Take the issue of Sieges, one of the biggest issues regarding the New Player Experience. Because North Point Rescue follows the Sniper's Ridge example of always being open for all, if a Siege is active you can't do the mission, it doesn't get instanced. There is also the bug related to a Siege "maybe" happening there in the future, but I droned on about that enough in another thread. Bottom line, does this theorhetical Mission Line Designer have the option to do instancing? Is instancing restricted to certain locations? It's not a simple situation. Take the Crusader's missions as an example. Here they added a mission line with new data recorders, something that a modder should be able to do. Even assuming the necessary database hooks exist to add new Pursuits and Intel objects, why does the recorder by Minigun Mayhem only spawn certain times? Why is the mission that leads you to the area near Top-Notch capable of overriding Emergencies that have spawned where mission characters are placed yet that never happens at any other time in the game?

    I only bring some of these things up because of the unknowns. We just don't have the details on what can be scripted versus that which requires system code changes. If a Mission Line Design Tool existed in a truly standalone form, it would be as easy to adapt for modders to extend the game as the earlier Emergencies one. Sure, there's a lot more worked involved in crafting all of the elements, but such a tool is obvious. It's implementation is what's not.

    I'm gonna cover one more thing before wrapping this bloated post up: Activities. "Activities" is the umbrella terms for things to do in the game. This includes Missions, Arkfalls, Challenges, Emergencies and more. To truly extend the game you would need to offer a tool to create new objects of any of these types, as well as wholesale new types. Here is where I think the designer and developer worlds are too far entangled. Create a new Co-op Map? Seems simple enough. Add back in Incursions? Not the same thing. And that's where I believe the problem in providing the community with a set of tools lies. Rather than properly abstracting parts of the game I believe too much was handed to developers to implement in code rather than provide systems for designers. I could easily envision a tool that could design all these elements, but don't believe that the route that was taken. Without those systems in place, without a series of hooks to allow scripting of those systems, some parts of the game never can be extended without actual development. Sure a modder could take the raw binary and patch back in Incursions, but your proposal is tied to leaving the server code where it is and simply open design systems to modders. That means relying on what systems are in place, and I'm convinced too few usable ones are available.

    Defiance 2050 was not developed by Trion. After the major employee purge following the release of the original, few developers remained on the project. This number dwindled as the promised DLC dropped. By the time Trion had essentially washed their hands of the project there was no one left to untangle the spaghetti code to fix core bugs, much less develop system and associated tools. When the current generation of console launched many people suggested Trion add Defiance to the Xbox One's backwards compatibility list, opening the existing game up to a swath of existing and new players. Instead they decided to develop 2050...or at least farm it out. Using a 3rd-party studio, Behavior, known more for porting titles across platforms than original designs, they took the existing PC codebase and assets, tweaked a few interface elements, rearranged other game system elements, and commented out far more, to generate the code we play on today. As Behavior is a contractor, money has to be spent to make changes to the code. A new Event isn't new code, obviously there is a tool to create these. When they want to drop in an existing model in a new use case, such as Zor for this past event, they don't have to do anything client-side. But if they add new cosmetics or prototypes, these can be done by designers rather than developers, so while it seems the codebase has been updated because you were forced to patch, all that really changed were the asset files.

    I'm sure this all sounds hugely negative twowolves80, but that's not because there's anything wrong with your core concepts. All the lamenting is tied to the realities of Defiance and Defiance 2050's core codebase and assumed limitations. What you are requesting would be a simple task if the original developers had scoped the project properly and abstracted all of it's systems. I do not believe that's the case.

    When I first launched Hulker Cafe I requested a "Photo Mode" be added to the game. Others had suggested such a feature, though more often for Machinima use rather than the stills I wanted to take. Of course I went much further (as I had done in my proposal for PvEvP, but that's another old story) to approach it from a developer's point of view. My suggestion was to add a new category to Gameplay Settings Page for the HUD, allowing someone to turn off each element individually or the whole thing. This offered a number of interesting gameplay additions as well: you could turn off the minimap to make things more challenging or the loadout block for a "hardcore" experience as your only indications of ammo and health would be visual and aural. With this group of settings I'd get what I wanted, Machinima people would get their tool (though they'd really need an unbound camera option as well), certain player types would get new options to alter the gameplay experience, and the coding would be minimal. A few extra database rows for everyone, and an update to the frame loop to remove the render penalty for the different HUD elements that weren't visible. Seemed like a no-brainer. No real response and obviously never implemented.

    I don't want to go out on a sour note but wanted to bring that last bit up as why I'm leery of any request to open the game up to "outsiders". Beyond the "Gamigo won't spend a dime" crowd, from a developer's point of view I'm worried too little of the game is divorced from layers of bad code and partially abstracted systems. Even with minimal dollars spent on opening existing scripting tools to the community, what state are they in, and how many can be successfully put to use without additional changes to the core code. This game is unique as far as I'm concerned, and alternatives friends have turned me on to have never captured my base shooter urge which is why I am still here, still trying to contribute and obviously still playing.

    I have a lot more to say on this topic but am saving it for my Guide. While the project itself is objective, there will be some editorial meandering after I've finished all the base elements. I have a path forward that includes many of your ideas but also deals in the realities of the base code and fixing long-term bugs which, while less important in terms of driving new users and keeping them, affect all players and especially those dedicated enough to explore issues and provide detailed bug reports. I'd like to find solutions for them as well.

    I'm glad others are here hoping for change within the game and hope this wasn't a big bucket of cold water for them or the community at large.

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  7. #37
    Member crasher's Avatar
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    @Clubside :
    Nice.
    Thanks for all that.
    These are just my opinions.
    I have lots of opinions.
    Some of them, on occasion, people have agreed with.
    I do not trust those people.

    NA/pc.
    2013:
    Mid E-5XXX main, but I played 26+ 'toons from E400 to E5500. (Dormant)
    2050: Lvl 499X main

  8. #38
    Member twowolves80's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by clubside View Post

    Knowledge is power, now get you some, sucka!*
    *May be slightly paraphrased in the interest of expediency.




    Okay, first, thank you for giving me facts. I really do appreciate your answer and the time you took to bring them to my attention. Now, let me try to find ways around them. lol (Did you expect any less...?)

    I come from a modder's perspective and familiarity with the GECK, ironically enough for which there is a version for the Gamebryo engine...(two of the games listed as using that engine on its wiki page are heavily modded over on Nexus, so someone, somewhere, has obviously worked out ways around bugs inherent in the game engine itself which helps, I hope...?). So, I'll refer to Defiance as if I was modding something else for terms and tools. Yes, it is so much more complicated than that, I get it, so I'm going to list paragraph numbers. And I have so many more questions now because I don't see all doom and gloom in your post. You gave me a lot to think about, and I've been having a lot of fun just reading and learning a bit more from the other posters, so thank you all.

    Also, I think there is room for giving us tools for at least the stuff you do mention would be easy to implement, such as the client-side texture maps and whatnot. In paragraph six, however, you mention the issue with the collision boxes not rendering properly in time to block players. This happens, too, with vehicles in instances in the middle of roads, or the collision box renders, but not the texture maps. Now, I can sort of speak to this as this is something that would occasionally occur in the F:NV random encounters that would occur with Caesar's Legion, where you'd see only their heads because the engine was lagging from trying to render the scripts for eight or ten NPCs that just randomly showed up, and the bodies wouldn't render through scopes. This was one of the bugs resolved, I believe, by Sheson or one of his luminaries on the Nexus in their unofficial patch series...which requires hooks for a script injector to put into the game which you mention are lacking... *facepalm*

    Also, a thought: collision boxes appearing (meaning the skelly is there, just not skinned) suggests that the it's too much for the PS4 to handle (or the PC's GPU) if the texture rendering is indeed stored client-side. However, if it's simply a bounding box issue in the .nif files, there's a tool for that to fix it called NifSkope. lol Does the work trailblazed by other games with the modding community on the Gamebryo engine count for nought??

    And the tools you mention in p.7 already exist as well and could be adapted with plugins since they were designed for at least one or two of the games on Gamebryo...given enough time. However, I see the issue with the two nodes. That, too, could be reworked, though, by offering a different skeleton for the players as a mod. Different skeletons would allow greater customization including bodymorph types and whatnot. There would have to be a skeleton for each gender, I believe, and that would be it since the skeleton is separate from the texture. Race would only be tinkered with in the other asset files, not the skeleton, so you should be able to load it right into NifSkope no problem, and then take a screen cap and show Gamigo like, hey, here's the problem, here's how to fix it, and post it in the bugs forum. It would just take time to figure out by trial-and-error fashion how to adapt that to a new skeleton without a good hook system...however, the ladies and gents over at Silverlock have always been pretty good at that sort of thing...just sayin'...and NV was always a PITA to mod anyway because it was more "fragile" than the others in that genre, so yeah, it would be painstaking, but I think it could be done. Those devs who worked on this game for Trion are probably still around and maybe lurk on here or elsewhere. If they could be convinced to come back to the table and piece it back together, that would be amazeballs.

    Not only that, as you mention in p.8, there are emotes that could be strung together for animations and whatnot. And new skeletons mean new animations that are easier to code for. That's probably the damned problem right there--how do you code animations for something with only a pair of nodes? I call b.s. I bet you krugerands to kentucky fried chicken that if you were to lay open the base code, even their skeletons have way more nodes that are probably locked, or coded out. Otherwise, animations would have been terrible and jerky and impossible to...oh...well...all the more reason, then for new skeletons. And best of all, skeletons don't require a script injector, they're just dropped in whatever the equivalent of the data folder would be for this game. Nothing would change, though (assuming you also coded in the position of the existing two current nodes as well), until someone wrote new animations for it.

    Also, on the PC, the scripting can be thrown onto the OS to handle and not the game engine...finally! See OSA mod. This would help take some of the pressure off the game engine. Console players, though, are screwed. lol I don't think it would make much difference because of how close to the red line the PS4s and whatnot run their GPUs anyway. Their OS isn't structured like MS, either.

    There's really no way of knowing until we could see the base code laid bare. Once it would be laid bare, it would take...I give it...about twelve months before modders had it cleaned up and patched properly. I think much of the issues in the Gamebryo engine itself are due to the butcherous way the patching has been done over and over. And I bet there is many hidden gems in the base code that are simply turned off. Modders recovered hours of playable content with the GECK in those games. Cutting Room Floor is a mod that stays near the top of the charts in d/ls for a reason.

    Can we start a kickstarter page to buy Defiance back? Or buy-in? lol

    As for the phasing bugs within missions, some of those are most likely due to conflicting trigger boxes. Pretty sure if we opened this up in this theoretical TECS of mine, we'd see blue and red trigger boxes all over the landscaped, dotted by giant inverted red triangles with exclamation points in them. That could all be cleaned up, but again, we'd have to see the base code to see how limited the coding is to truly make a determination. I gotta believe, though, this game is at least somewhat similar to other Gamebryo games that are moddable, even if in limited fashion.

    Yeah, it does look limited, but ironically, the fewer people continuing to play, the more likely that Gamigo/Behavior will try to offload it or shut it down. Maybe some angel investor will swoop in and save it and buy up the IP to do it correctly...Sure wish I had the money because I'd make them an offer they couldn't refuse.

    This game is unique, like you say. It has so much potential. I can feel it. I honestly don't see the harm in sending a little discretionary cash to quietly approach people like Sheson and say hey, sign this NDA and take a look at this and see if these tools can be expanded? I mean, do so in a corporately-acceptable way. I know that's not how it works, but that is how it works in a way, because it's happened before. lol

    I keep thinking back to how Microsoft released the base code for the Kinnex and suddenly, people were modding the crap out of it and their sales went through the charts after they were told by their advisers the exact opposite was going to happen. Pff. But like you say, how much can be divorced from the other aspects to be safe for release? Which is why you would need a closed beta to test the first incarnation...

    Thank you again, though, for your post.

    Welp, I guess it's time for Plan B...

    "Death inspires me like a dog inspires a rabbit." --Twenty One Pilots, Heavy, Dirty Soul

    "We each owe a death. There are no exceptions. But oh, God, sometimes the Green Mile seems so long." --Paul Edgecomb

    Who am I? Just a rolling stone, gathering no moss; a fool who knows nothing, only that he's lost. --tw

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