Please fix weapon leveling

[Matryoshka]

Absolutely agreed. Right now the system sends a ton of mixed messages about what the devs want you to do, which leaves the whole thing feeling a bit confused.

1. When your weapon "ranks up", it gets extra stats.
Message: "This weapon is even better now! You should use it until you find something even better!"

2. When your weapon "ranks up", your associated weapon skill stops all progress.
Message: "This weapon is worthless now! If you want to progress, treat all weapons as disposable."

3. Weapons can be upgraded extensively via the Salvage Matrix. You can spend a lot of resources on adding slots and fitting those slots with useful modifications.
Message: "Look at all this cool stuff you can do to your weapon! This means you should hold onto it, because you've spent so much effort into making it better!"

4. To anyone trying to improve/progress their character, weapons are gone through like tissues.
Message: "Weapons are disposable! Don't get attached to them, and try lots of different types!"

5. Weapons skills are segregated by subtype, sometimes exhaustively so. (Shotguns, Sniper Rifles, I'm looking at you.)
Message: "Stick to two very specific types of weapons! Don't branch out, or you'll water down your progress!"

6. Weapons are ranked by a quality/rarity level. Getting a very nice weapon is like getting a ticking timebomb.
Message: "This weapon is awesome! But...don't get attached to it! The moment it maxes out you'll want to ditch it for the most passable weapon of the same type you can find."

[Blondin]

Every other MMO out there doesn't punish you for wanting to hang on and use better points.

Because in other MMO you use a lvl 2 weapon when you are level 50?

Oh and don't forget that once you will be level 20 you can use wathever you want, you will not gain any level more...

[Neogeo]

Variety of weapon my arse. I'm keeping 10 over FRC Heavy Assault Carbine and VBI TACC Assault Rifle just to level my AR skills. Unless you consider different color of FRC rifle is a form of variety, the system doesn't promote using different weapon. It's merely enforce keeping multiple weapon of same name because weapon color doesn't matter for leveling purpose. Likewise when I going to level my LMG skills, it's either FRC SAW or Frontier SAW. Cluster shot to level shotgun, Wolfhound to level pistol.

Where's this variety you fan boys speak off? Because I ain't seeing it.

On the other hand, If Defiance use a system where weapon actually did more damage as you progress, I might be more inclined to use a different weapon.

Because in other MMO you use a lvl 2 weapon when you are level 50?

Oh and don't forget that once you will be level 20 you can use wathever you want, you will not gain any level more...

If the level 50 weapon had same base damage as the level 2 one like in Defiance, there's no reason to switch. Thanks god other MMO actually had item progression.

[Matryoshka]

Because in other MMO you use a lvl 2 weapon when you are level 50?

And if weapons had levels in this game, that'd be relevant.

Near as I have been able to tell, they have quality levels, and that's it. The base damage on a weapon you get at the start and a weapon you get at the end is exactly the same. Furthermore, a weapon you acquire at a high level will decay into uselessness just as fast as at a low level, and that's the problem.

I love this game, but applying blunt apologism to the game hurts it just as much as, maybe even more than, hate posts. No game is perfect, every game can grow, and legitimate concerns getting argued down by people who confuse liking something with never questioning it's every movement hurts the game's ability to grow and improve.

[Blondin]

Thanks god other MMO actually had item progression.

Thanks god Defiance is not a clone like any other game.

[BaiorOfRed]

Man, every game that comes out the forums blow up with how they want it to be like every other game. No wonder gaming has turned into an endless march of sequels and remakes, no one is actually willing to learn a new game.

My set up: Solo questing - Leveling weapons.
Ark Fall - Full leveled weapons
Co-op - Leveling weapons
PVP - Fully leveled weapons

Two classes for training and increasing skills two classes for my best "keeper" weapons to show their stuff.

[Matryoshka]

Man, every game that comes out the forums blow up with how they want it to be like every other game. No wonder gaming has turned into an endless march of sequels and remakes, no one is actually willing to learn a new game.

My set up: Solo questing - Leveling weapons.
Ark Fall - Full leveled weapons
Co-op - Leveling weapons
PVP - Fully leveled weapons

Two classes for training and increasing skills two classes for my best "keeper" weapons to show their stuff.

Yes. Raising concerns about a self-contradictory, confused progression system is the same thing as saying "we want this to be like every other game". And fixing the weird weapon progression system would be like every other game.

You caught us.

Seriously, I like this game. I want it to do well. That's why if I see a legitimate concern, I'll call it out, because every game, EVERY game has room for improvement, and games like this need to improve to survive.

[BaiorOfRed]

Yes. Raising concerns about a self-contradictory, confused progression system is the same thing as saying "we want this to be like every other game". And fixing the weird weapon progression system would be like every other game.

You caught us.

Seriously, I like this game. I want it to do well. That's why if I see a legitimate concern, I'll call it out, because every game, EVERY game has room for improvement, and games like this need to improve to survive.

Nice.

Anyway, we can at least agree every game has room for improvement but I find a lot of other areas more pressing. The system is confusing and not immediately intuitive, but it can easily be worked with and even enjoyed. It has a steep learning curve, but that isn't always a bad thing.

Having said that, if the only thing they change about weapon progression is to allow you to keep leveling skill after maxing a weapon, I am down.

[Matryoshka]

Nice.

Anyway, we can at least agree every game has room for improvement but I find a lot of other areas more pressing. The system is confusing and not immediately intuitive, but it can easily be worked with and even enjoyed. It has a steep learning curve, but that isn't always a bad thing.

Having said that, if the only thing they change about weapon progression is to allow you to keep leveling skill after maxing a weapon, I am down.

That's pretty much all I'd want.

The problem I have with the current system isn't the learning curve or it's intuitiveness, but rather the way it contradicts itself and the confused messages it communicates to the player. Weapons improve their stats when ranked up, incentivizing continuing to use them, and yet when they rank up, they halt all progression of the associated skill, disincentivizing the exact same thing. Weapons have a very cool upgrade system via adding slots and finding/selecting mods for those slots again, encouraging their continued use, and yet the system discourages treating most weapons as anything but disposable. There's a lot of variety in weapon types, but the balkanization of the weapon skills strongly discourages wandering outside of 2 weapon types. Cool legendary weapons, which normally should be the source of a rewarding feeling, instead feel like ticking time bombs.

It's not really about difficulty to me, it's about coherent design.

[Arsenic_Touch]

That's pretty much all I'd want.

The problem I have with the current system isn't the learning curve or it's intuitiveness, but rather the way it contradicts itself and the confused messages it communicates to the player. Weapons improve their stats when ranked up, incentivizing continuing to use them, and yet when they rank up, they halt all progression of the associated skill, disincentivizing the exact same thing. Weapons have a very cool upgrade system via adding slots and finding/selecting mods for those slots again, encouraging their continued use, and yet the system discourages treating most weapons as anything but disposable. There's a lot of variety in weapon types, but the balkanization of the weapon skills strongly discourages wandering outside of 2 weapon types. Cool legendary weapons, which normally should be the source of a rewarding feeling, instead feel like ticking time bombs.

It's not really about difficulty to me, it's about coherent design.

Pretty much nailed it. Plus part of the mod system isn't even in game and you have to depend on a RNG grind for real money, keys or reps to get specific mods while others aren't even available or so insanely rare that you have no hope of ever finishing a synergy. It boggles my mind that people think a contradictory and unfinished system with a RNG grind is innovative.