Lack of progression will push people away.

[Frost033]

Okay, looks like I have to show you what he wrote. Frost's OP:

"
Lack of progression will push people away.

Please don't get me wrong, this isn't a "I'm leaving" post, but I am looking for a bit of a pep talk. The face is, there is little to no difference between an ego 300 and ego 10. While this is nice for being able to play with other people lower and higher levels, its frustrating because I feel like I'm just spinning my tires. I'm only at EGO 420 or so but the guns I'm finding are EXACTLY the same as the ones I found at 10, 20, 80, 100, etc. Other than story, I'm having a hard time getting motivated to play.

And IF by some chance you do find a gun you enjoy, you only get it for a limited time because the game forces you to use different guns once they're maxed out in XP if you want to gain anymore weapon XP. How does that make ANY sense??

Without any sense of progression people aren't going to be playing this game long. Look at other games, especially MMO's, you have to have SOMETHING that makes people come back for more. Unless I'm missing something, Defiance is missing that hook that makes people stay with a game for an extended period of time."

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All the bolded and underlining is my emphasis. Any questions?

Thank you for bolding points but you still don't show where I say there is NO progression. There are some slight differences, but what I was saying is there is no real sense of progressing as you level. I don't think you've helped your cause here, because what you claim I said, I never did say....

[Zeroexit]

This is probably why 10% to 20% increases in gear aren't good enough for people like you. You either can't see or don't understand small details. You need something like 9999 dmg or 99 clip increases to see "progression."

So, I'm guessing likewise you don't really understand details in arguments unless a person says it EXACTLY.

Are you serious? Your confusing me with another poster. I don't want to roflstomp anyone, As I said before Im ALL for Balanced PVP, but PVE don't have to be that way, WHY? why does it? Its no surprise that there isn't anything to do at EGO 5000 that you cant do at EGO 500, do you understand that? I understand details in arguments, its you who doesn't really have one, or just CANT ARGUE. Do you know what quotations are? what they really ARE? do you know the definition of Lacking? Go play call of duty.

[Chainlynx]

Excellent post, SteveMND.

[KashraFall]

Sorry if this was a repost, I did search before making this topic and didn't see anything like what I'm talking about. You say this game has weapon progression, which is kinda true, but once you max out the xp on a weapon you enjoy, you're forced to change weapons to keep your weapon progression going.

I did a lot of reading and what not before I bought this game, and even rented it before buying. I enjoy the game, I hope that doesn't get lost, but what I'm saying is that eventually, that enjoyment will wear off eventually due to that feeling of no real progression. While I'm not super high yet, I do have a friend who is around 1500 EGO. When we do Arkfalls together he does pretty much the same damage as I do. He's 1000+ EGO levels ahead of me and does the same damage with his gun as I do? Sure, he might reload a hair faster than I do making his DPS very slightly higher, but not enough to really make a huge difference. Then you look at his shield, which is pretty much the same as mine and his nade mod, same.

So is 1000+ levels of ego enough to compare progression or do I need to wait longer to judge that?

Certain perks work in unison with weapon choice. This all works towards you ending up doing more damage than anyone who isn't properly trained in those perks and the weapon skills increase the Crit multi as well as other fun little things. I personally think the weapon leveled system is bugged right now as you see very meager increases but they are there, none the less. However if you do look into the perks, you will see there are ways to do more than others. You just have to be willing to hop off the "LMG or AR" band wagon and do a bit more delving. I am sorry you aren't feeling as if you are enjoying the game and yes the longevity is questioned.

The simple fact however is this. Trion designed this game with the sole thought of people being able to play together, regardless of their time spent in the game. They have kept that promise and now you people are dislike the way they came about it? Give the game a bit of time to stabilize. IT has been what? Two weeks? Not even?

[Tristanian]

Quite honestly, I don't understand the heat in the discussion. Progression exists, it's just that the game introduces an indirect "breaking point" around 1000 EGO or so, where any "progression" has very little impact on the efficiency of the character in either terms of DPS or survivability. The important part here, is that (at the moment) no content exists where these small increments in power are required or even matter, in terms of making things easier or significantly...faster. That's precicely why a lot of players don't 'feel' whatever is you want to call progression.

[Badblade]

I don't get all the hostility. It's a fun game and I feel like there's enough to keep busy. Maybe the hardcore 1500 EGO grinders are outplaying the content, but I feel like there is consistently things to work on. One point I'd like to make is that most mmo compartmentalize their game into level based areas. It may seem big, but you can only access a tenth of the game at a time based on your level. Defiance has managed to code a game where everybody can game without these level based barriers...seems impressive to me. I find the shooting fun and accurate and I'm shocked at how smooth the gaming is now. Kudos to the trion team for fast fixes and constant communication to the players.

- I am about to hit 500 EGO.
- I am working on some different builds and look forward to my 5th perk slot
- I am experimenting with weapon slots.
- So happy that guns aren't grossly imbalanced or statistically different. Favourite gun is one I got at EGO 70
- doing some multiplayer. Seems fun. Look forward to more maps. Shotguns perhaps a bit OP in multiplayer.
- not done all the missions yet. Very curious to see what the weekly releases are like and how much content.
- chipping away at contracts.
- have some friends playing (teaming up is a blast)
- certain I've missed stuff

I dunno... I have lots to do at the moment.

[Atticus Finch]

Thank you for bolding points but you still don't show where I say there is NO progression. There are some slight differences, but what I was saying is there is no real sense of progressing as you level. I don't think you've helped your cause here, because what you claim I said, I never did say....

*Sigh*

Saying that "I'm only at EGO 420 or so but the guns I'm finding are EXACTLY the same as the ones I found at 10, 20, 80, 100, etc."

Saying that guns are "EXACTLY the same" (your CAPS) isn't saying there are some slight differences. Am I missing something?

[Frost033]

The simple fact however is this. Trion designed this game with the sole thought of people being able to play together, regardless of their time spent in the game. They have kept that promise and now you people are dislike the way they came about it? Give the game a bit of time to stabilize. IT has been what? Two weeks? Not even?

KashraFall, I'm not going anywhere, I DO enjoy the game, but how many people do you think are going to stick around and see what happens? Video games have a very small window to grab people and keep them, if they don't, they're gone forever. Look how many MMO's have fallen to this? Conan is a perfect example. They came out pretty big, stumbled and made errors, lost a massive amount of users. Today the game is REALLY good, but nobody cares because it already had it's shot and people have moved on. Diablo 3 is another example of this. Once you lose your target audience, its gone, you don't get it back. There are just too many games today for people to sit around and wait for a game to figure out how to be better.

[Warkaiser]

Very well put crunchy, but they do have RPG elements instilled in this game, and that by itself opens the market to people who want to see more of that RPG flavor. And NO ONE is wrong for having wanted that. Call us uninformed if you will but Trion didn't make a thirdperson COD, they did indeed want the MMORPG players to open their wallets and buy this game.

They may have wanted the RPG players to open their wallets, but that wasnt their main focus. Thats pretty clear by not only some of the elements that are or are not in the game, but also that they have said repeatedly that the game is a shooter above all else, other features come 2nd. They already tried the whole thing that every other company has been doing where they make a game similar to WoW, EQ, etc and try to succeed in that market. Problem is, it's already been done over and over and over. You're not going to out-WoW WoW. Many have tried, and all have failed. Trion attempted with Rift, and though it was more successful than many other games that released since WoW, it didn't work out as well as they would have liked.

So would it be smart to repeat the same mistake? Make another gear / level based game like the 200 that already exist? Focus on all the same features and mechanics that those 200 other games also offer? Create a direct competitor to one of their already running games which just released an expansion in the past year? Of course that's not a smart idea. They already have Rift. Sure they could have taken the easy route and just reskinned Rift, added the Defiance name, and changed the storyline / characters, but that would have been a stupid move.

Defiance was meant to appeal mainly to a different group of players. Players who enjoy shooters for what they offer, including player skill based gameplay rather than character skill / progression based, but who also want to play in a persistent world. Theres very little competition out there for such a game in comparison to another WoW/EQ/SWTOR/WAR/Rift style game.

I don't really get everyone's desire to keep playing & paying for the same game over and over again every year or 2 wrapped in a new skin with a new name but nearly identical features, mechanics, and gameplay. Theres plenty of them out there already. Everyone complains theyre bored of this game and that game, or will whine every time a WoW-clone comes out that "OMG this just a ****ty WoW-clone. Why cant any devs do anything besides copy WoW" yet every time a new game comes out they complain that the new game doesnt have all the same stuff the game they were bored with had. Let a different game be different for once rather than trying to force into being the same old regurgitated crap we have been playing for a decade.

PS: You can replace WoW in several places in my post with whatever game you prefer. About 90% of them will fit the description. Just using WoW since it is the biggest / most well known example.

[Daholic]

Certain perks work in unison with weapon choice. This all works towards you ending up doing more damage than anyone who isn't properly trained in those perks and the weapon skills increase the Crit multi as well as other fun little things. I personally think the weapon leveled system is bugged right now as you see very meager increases but they are there, none the less. However if you do look into the perks, you will see there are ways to do more than others. You just have to be willing to hop off the "LMG or AR" band wagon and do a bit more delving. I am sorry you aren't feeling as if you are enjoying the game and yes the longevity is questioned.

The simple fact however is this. Trion designed this game with the sole thought of people being able to play together, regardless of their time spent in the game. They have kept that promise and now you people are dislike the way they came about it? Give the game a bit of time to stabilize. IT has been what? Two weeks? Not even?

Seems to me pve is only balanced for pvp purposes. I posted a few days ago, that i was able to do co-op instance solo! I had 3 of my friends join, and all they did was stand back and do nothing, just to see if i could. I had no perks active and a very low ego weapon, with no mods. Now heres my question..if im able to do that (and by the way, anyone can test this out, its easy as **** to do) were is my motivation now? Its human nature to feel challenged, this is to much balance and the perseption of progression is a cheap trick especially when im able to do things with no mobd and no perks. This is the kind of game you want????