Lack of progression will push people away.

[Rasczak]

If by progression you mean increases in stats to fight stuff that also increased in stats then all you end up with is useless old zones and segregation in the community. Real progression is about increasing challenges, not just bosses with higher health, that just creates a gear treadmill. When you level up to do 10 times more damage to fight something with 10 times more health you are going nowhere and it is only an illusion of progression.

Give it up. The WoW/EQ/Rift hardcores will never wrap their heads around that. Don't get me wrong, I played WoW for several years and currently have a subscription to Rift; but I've been tired of that treadmill/progression illusion for a long time, and the segregation it brings to a community.

[jnt]

Give it up. The WoW/EQ/Rift hardcores will never wrap their heads around that. Don't get me wrong, I played WoW for several years and currently have a subscription to Rift; but I've been tired of that treadmill/progression illusion for a long time, and the segregation it brings to a community.

Wrap their heads around what? The post you quoted just said the word challenges without elaborating.

If Trion added some more fun, Defiance would be a better game.

[PseudoCool]

Ya know.. we keep seeing this thread topic over and over and over and over and over...

And then people wonder why those of us who actually see Defiance for what it is are SICK AND TIRED, and telling people to go back to WoW/Rift/Whatever?

C'mon guys.. GET REAL. This is NOT a gear-grinding, socially diverse, mmoRPG (and yes, I've played many of them) that any of us are used to. Does the game have some things that NEED to be fixed (ie the UI and Chat systems).. oh hell yes. But.. this game is NOT what any of us are used to in terms of an MMO (since most MMOs follow that pre-baked-cookie-cutter-building-BS).

People need to SEE DEFIANCE for what it is.. and understand what it isn't.

Maybe THEN you'll either get onboard and understand how the game mechanics work.. or you FINALLY open your eyes and say "Ok.. I enjoyed it, but it's not the game for me".

[jnt]

Ya know.. we keep seeing this thread topic over and over and over and over and over...

And then people wonder why those of us who actually see Defiance for what it is are SICK AND TIRED, and telling people to go back to WoW/Rift/Whatever?

C'mon guys.. GET REAL. This is NOT a gear-grinding, socially diverse, mmoRPG (and yes, I've played many of them) that any of us are used to. Does the game have some things that NEED to be fixed (ie the UI and Chat systems).. oh hell yes. But.. this game is NOT what any of us are used to in terms of an MMO (since most MMOs follow that pre-baked-cookie-cutter-building-BS).

People need to SEE DEFIANCE for what it is.. and understand what it isn't.

Maybe THEN you'll either get onboard and understand how the game mechanics work.. or you FINALLY open your eyes and say "Ok.. I enjoyed it, but it's not the game for me".

See when I look at it I see an unfinished Borderlands MMO, I hope it gets completed via patching.

[tinytina]

Name some challenges you'd like to add to Defiance that don't include farming, organizing large numbers of players with a broken chat system, or just increasing monster hp. I'm curious.

Challenges, as in new and interesting mechanics. Look at the motherlode and dekuso fights. They are pretty simple but have some basic mechanics to make them more interesting than most other stuff in the game. Build on those ideas, adding in varied and different mechanics that get harder to coordinate. Chat will be fixed, viop will be fixed, I play with other people all the time with no issues with communication right now. Anyway, doing more damage to a mob with more health isn't progression, you are going nowhere.

[Lyokira]

Name some challenges you'd like to add to Defiance that don't include farming, organizing large numbers of players with a broken chat system, or just increasing monster hp. I'm curious.

1) Mixed mob arkfalls
2) Dark Matter arkfalls
3) Arkfall-related PvP

[JonDav]

If by progression you mean increases in stats to fight stuff that also increased in stats then all you end up with is useless old zones and segregation in the community. Real progression is about increasing challenges, not just bosses with higher health, that just creates a gear treadmill. When you level up to do 10 times more damage to fight something with 10 times more health you are going nowhere and it is only an illusion of progression.

Older zones don't become useless when an MMO has multiple classes which encourages a player to have multiple characters. Those charactera are going to need to utilize those "useless areas". When an MMO is like defiance, where there is zero incentive to have multiple characters, then yes certain areas become useless. Real progression comes from increasing challenges and you counter the increasing challenge but allowing a player to have noticeably better gear. If two different players both level to 50 and one acquires better gear while the other lingers in gear 20 levels behind, what do you think the result would be? One will deal more damage and live longer than the other. There's no illusion there. It's progression staring you right in the face...

[Warkaiser]

If by progression you mean increases in stats to fight stuff that also increased in stats then all you end up with is useless old zones and segregation in the community. Real progression is about increasing challenges, not just bosses with higher health, that just creates a gear treadmill. When you level up to do 10 times more damage to fight something with 10 times more health you are going nowhere and it is only an illusion of progression.

Really wish more people would understand that bit of information. I get that they enjoy watching their numbers get higher and higher, but then you wind up fighting stuff that also has higher numbers. So it winds up being just as challenging as it was several levels ago. The downside is, now the stuff you were fighting before becomes completely useless to you and a complete snooze fest to fight if you wanted to do something like join up with friends who are lower level.

Thats one of the great things about a system like Defiance, or even the down leveling system of GW2. When you go back and play earlier content, you will have an advantage, but it wont be to the point where you can just sit there letting 50 mobs hit you and take 0 damage and then just 1 shot everything in sight. The content still presents a bit of a challenge, and is still rewarding.

[jnt]

Challenges, as in new and interesting mechanics. Look at the motherlode and dekuso fights. They are pretty simple but have some basic mechanics to make them more interesting than most other stuff in the game. Build on those ideas, adding in varied and different mechanics that get harder to coordinate. Chat will be fixed, viop will be fixed, I play with other people all the time with no issues with communication right now. Anyway, doing more damage to a mob with more health isn't progression, you are going nowhere.

Dekuso? The nodes are just extra hp you have to deplete.

Character progress is getting stronger relative to a particular challenge. If I got twice as powerful then the first Hellbugs would be half as threatening. If I level up and go from barely being able to beat hellbugs to being able to overwhelm hellbugs but have tough fights with Dark Matter then the time is well spent. My first day in Defiance I went found some 99ers way ahead of time in the story. Shields weren't a new mechanic, they were just more hp I had to deplete.

Doing more damage when the mob has more hp is not progression. You're right. It's not what I'm asking for here.

Power level needs to be relatively fixed in relationship to a challenge to be beatable. You increase powerlevel of monsters so there is room to increase the power and utility of characters.

[Lyokira]

Older zones don't become useless when an MMO has multiple classes which encourages a player to have multiple characters. Those charactera are going to need to utilize those "useless areas".

Eventually you level up past the beginner area with all classes, then the low level zones become useless again.