Lack of progression will push people away.

[eridian]

I've heard more complaints than praises for Dead Island scaling though, mostly that your weapons become hugely less effective at higher levels.

I'm sure trion could make it work right.

[Xaearth]

It's because the game never changes. There is no challenge to overcome. It's not stat progression really, even though it appears that way, it's gameplay progression. This game starts out very basic....and stays that way forever.

Erm... let's forget for a moment that you completely ignored the rest of my post, and take your reply at face value...

Since when do MMOs change in the first 2 weeks after launch?

Now, back to the part where you ignored the rest of my post:
Are you stoned?

[bleuzarro]

Please don't get me wrong, this isn't a "I'm leaving" post, but I am looking for a bit of a pep talk. The face is, there is little to no difference between an ego 300 and ego 10. While this is nice for being able to play with other people lower and higher levels, its frustrating because I feel like I'm just spinning my tires. I'm only at EGO 420 or so but the guns I'm finding are EXACTLY the same as the ones I found at 10, 20, 80, 100, etc. Other than story, I'm having a hard time getting motivated to play.

And IF by some chance you do find a gun you enjoy, you only get it for a limited time because the game forces you to use different guns once they're maxed out in XP if you want to gain anymore weapon XP. How does that make ANY sense??

Without any sense of progression people aren't going to be playing this game long. Look at other games, especially MMO's, you have to have SOMETHING that makes people come back for more. Unless I'm missing something, Defiance is missing that hook that makes people stay with a game for an extended period of time.

ironically enough, I just abandoned this game (for now, until new content starts rolling out) and started playing rift. endless stuff to do. I'm having a lot of fun. They can make good games, it apparently just takes time. But the lack of progression made me get to a stale point as well.

I COULD do the pursuits, but for what? to brag about it? to boost my ego? woopty doo. No huge benefit except a prettier texture on your car or your clothes. No great benefits to anything in the game, but hopefully that will change.

[Gohlar]

Erm... let's forget for a moment that you completely ignored the rest of my post, and take your reply at face value...

Since when do MMOs change in the first 2 weeks after launch?

Now, back to the part where you ignored the rest of my post:
Are you stoned?

I wasn't trying to be combative and you completely missed the point. I'm not talking about updates. I'm saying there is very little variation in Defiance. From your hyper-defensive response I suspect you agree and went into fanboy mode. Have fun with that but the truth is the truth and this game is incredibly basic. Nothing changes much from beginning to end and there is nothing for groups to do that is even remotely difficult.

The rest of your post is worthless because you don't understand the problem. The game is a thinly veiled exorcise in mediocrity and doesn't even try to be a good game. It's the bare minimum. What's shocking to me is that not only do some fall for it, they actually defend such an uninspired experience.

[Jeronan]

To be completely honest, it boggles my mind that there are so many people that can't see the progression that is so glaringly obvious to me and many others on these forums.

All I have to do is unslot my perks, pick up an un-modded bolt action sniper rifle, and start headshotting dark matter.
It takes forever because I have to make 2 headshots to kill even the normal grunts.

I reslot my perks and put a few + damage or + crit mods on that same sniper rifle, and I'm looking at a stream of 1 shot kills, and depending on the rifle and its inherent bonuses, I'm 1 shotting the standard elites as well!

It's only a difference of a few 1.1x multipliers, but they add up.

I will gladly admit that this is the most obvious of cases, with the highest damage possible from a single shot on the weapon with the lowest firing rate. But weapon base damage is balanced against fire rate. All other weapons have similar progression, it just isn't as clearly noticeable because you're doing smaller damage at a far higher rate of fire.

The problem is, that you can already have the most important perks unslotted and a good weapon+mods before you even hit EGO 400 !

That's what the OP tried to point out and what others (like me) have pointed out before.

I am barely EGO 400 and already unlocked and slotted the perks I want and have a Purple gun and blue gun + good mods (one even With synergy mods).

They tried desperately to keep progression as flat as possible for the sake of PVP Balance!
But truth is, that PVP is just absolutely terrible in this game! It's all cloak + shotgun most of the time. PVP in this game is just not fun at all!
So now the PVE part in this game is just unnecessary hurting and gimped, because of PVP that is terrible.

People keep saying this is a shooter. Well sorry to break it to them! The average shooter out there is tons better and actually has longetivity!
The PVP is amazing and fun! Tons of maps and different PVP modes. And there is a Whole modding community behind it, keeping those games fresh!
There is a reason why there are still UT99, UT2004 and BF1942 servers running today. It has a huge modding community that is still around.

DEFIANCE doesn't have this! There is no hook in this game. No longetivity! A couple New episode missions a month and a (paid) DLC once every 2-3 months is not going to keep many People around. Sorry.

[Gohlar]

DEFIANCE doesn't have this! There is no hook in this game. No longetivity! A couple New episode missions a month and a (paid) DLC once every 2-3 months is not going to keep many People around. Sorry.

Exactly. No hook at all. No challenge to overcome. What's left? Fetch quests, Arkfalls and some pvp that makes me want to play a real shooter.

Coming from Trion this is disappointing.

[Xaearth]

I wasn't trying to be combative and you completely missed the point. I'm not talking about updates. I'm saying there is very little variation in Defiance. From your hyper-defensive response I suspect you agree and went into fanboy mode. Have fun with that but the truth is the truth and this game is incredibly basic. Nothing changes much from beginning to end and there is nothing for groups to do that is even remotely difficult.

The rest of your post is worthless because you don't understand the problem. The game is a thinly veiled exorcise in mediocrity and doesn't even try to be a good game. It's the bare minimum. What's shocking to me is that not only do some fall for it, they actually defend such an uninspired experience.

So... basically your entire argument boils down to the "fact" that there is no challenging content built for pre-made groups and the "fact" that loot doesn't scale up drastically obviously means there never will be challenging content built for pre-made groups?

...

You do realize by removing gear from the equation it makes it that much easier to design content that actually requires >skill< to complete? Just because it isn't here yet, doesn't mean it won't be coming.

Instead of facerolling content with premades you should PuG it out and see how amazingly bad some people can be at this game and how it actually causes a challenge when you realize you're the only person really fighting mobs scaled for a whole group.

[JonDav]

The problem is, that you can already have the most important perks unslotted and a good weapon+mods before you even hit EGO 400 !

That's what the OP tried to point out and what others (like me) have pointed out before.

I am barely EGO 400 and already unlocked and slotted the perks I want and have a Purple gun and blue gun + good mods (one even With synergy mods).

They tried desperately to keep progression as flat as possible for the sake of PVP Balance!
But truth is, that PVP is just absolutely terrible in this game! It's all cloak + shotgun most of the time. PVP in this game is just not fun at all!
So now the PVE part in this game is just unnecessary hurting and gimped, because of PVP that is terrible.

People keep saying this is a shooter. Well sorry to break it to them! The average shooter out there is tons better and actually has longetivity!
The PVP is amazing and fun! Tons of maps and different PVP modes. And there is a Whole modding community behind it, keeping those games fresh!
There is a reason why there are still UT99, UT2004 and BF1942 servers running today. It has a huge modding community that is still around.

DEFIANCE doesn't have this! There is no hook in this game. No longetivity! A couple New episode missions a month and a (paid) DLC once every 2-3 months is not going to keep many People around. Sorry.

Excellent post. To sacrifice PvE to keep "balance" in PvP was a terrible move. There's too many flat out superior PvP experiences out there to think the mediocrity in Defiance will have any lasting appeal. Hell, not even two weeks after release and Shadow War is damn near unplayable due to lack of players. Foolish mistake that will surely cost them in the long run...

[Gohlar]

So... basically your entire argument boils down to the "fact" that there is no challenging content built for pre-made groups and the "fact" that loot doesn't scale up drastically obviously means there never will be challenging content built for pre-made groups?

...

You do realize by removing gear from the equation it makes it that much easier to design content that actually requires >skill< to complete? Just because it isn't here yet, doesn't mean it won't be coming.

Instead of facerolling content with premades you should PuG it out and see how amazingly bad some people can be at this game and how it actually causes a challenge when you realize you're the only person really fighting mobs scaled for a whole group.

Lack of challenge is a huge problem and that is a fact. Everything else you said, no. It's literally my whole point. As it stands the game doesn't have anything fun for groups to do. Steamrolling co-op maps or Arkfalls is so trivial it just isn't much fun. I do pugs for co-op too, I've never lost. Not once. It's stupidly easy.

If Defiance was simply more fun to play people wouldn't obsess over the loot as much. Also, you told me to stop playing with friends in an mmo to have fun? Talk about a poorly designed "mmo"...

I don't get people who bend over backwards to defend a game. It makes no sense...

[illgot]

Oh no the game is so awesome cause rank 10 EGOs weapons do the same as rank 1000, that's super cool and balanced. I especially love it in all those PVP modes......Get real.

Yeah, no.

Rank 1000+ weapons I find now often have all 4 slots ready for mods. They also seem to have slightly more damage (by +2 on every pellet for the shotguns I use) and they can have more starting buffs.

Is this game like WoW where a level 1 won't even be able to hit a level 80? No, and it never should be in PvP.

This game relies more on skill and is a great option for those that want a game where new players stand a chance. Seasoned players already have perks and weapon mods, we do not need weapons 1000% better than the new players to prove anything more.