Nim should be nerfed a wee bit

[Mudblood]

No he shouldnt. Its the last guy for a reason. I had no issues beating him. He repeats his movements. Just learn what he does and hes super easy.

[Speshalke]

Never played any of the games you listed. Never wanted to. Hate platformers of any stripe. Hate "fighting" games: they just make your hands hurt. Hate running games.

Love MMOs. Love (most) shooters. Played nearly every of both genre. Defiance is a match made in heaven, overall. I will have no problem beating NIM. Would have beat him on the first "attempt" if I hadn't simply run out of time and had to log out. Was on the third stage and getting his patterns down. My spouse? different story. Lots of gamer friends I have, who aren't "leet" or even close to it? Different story. And even for myself, the entire time I'm thinking "this fight is way overtuned compared to the difficulty level of everything else in the entire game. This fight is a grind. This fight is way too long. This fight is making my hands hurt. I'm not having fun, there is no significant tactical challenge or thinking: it's just sheer reaction time whack-a-mole crap with constant dodging and LOSing."

As for WoW? They're still the 900-lb gorilla that every other MMO wishes they could be, revenue-wise. GW2 had a shot at unseating them, but they blew it with their bad end-game design: Dungeons are too hard/long for most of their core audience, and WvWvW is too limited and they haven't been able to successfully address culling and "zerg wins".

See, here's the deal: in the end, everyone just wants a game to be:

1. Fun
2. Have lots of replay value.

Problem is, everyone's idea of "fun" is very different. To each their own. All a designer has to do to satisfy the "only a hard challenge is fun" people is to put that hard content off to the side. The people who don't want the hard content just ignore it and do the stuff that they find fun instead. The people that want the hard content can optionally go find it and enjoy to their heart's content.

The main thing wrong with the Nim fight is that in it's current state, it's not "off to the side" like it should be. It's blocking progress and enjoyment for more people than I think you suspect.

I realize that an MMO has to cater to people of many different levels of skill and styles of play, but I don't think they should really change Nim from his current difficulty level. The thing is, if he becomes just another quest as easy to complete as a side quest, there is no more satisfaction from beating him. Personally, I love a challenge, and to be able to say that I beat such-and-such boss should be an accomplishment, not just another quest that gives you more loot.

I do agree that perhaps in the future more difficult bosses should be added to the sides, though I think the final boss of different "sections" should necessarily be more difficult, and cause people to fail to beat it a few times, whether soloing or in groups. I agree with Archangel's comments that many, many, many games are much more challenging than this one. Inferno difficulty in Diablo 3 is ridiculous, and makes Defiance seem like a cake-walk. That's not to say Trion should expect everyone to be at that skill level, because they aren't. However, I think there is also a danger of alienating the higher-skilled players who find the combat portion of the game a breeze if not enough challenging content is including throughout the game: in the main storyline, arkfalls, and co-op missions.

Personally, the storyline isn't the biggest deal. I can see why some people think Nim is hard, but dying a few times shouldn't make something too hard. Many games require you to die many times, and this fusion of FPS with MMO is trying to find a good balance between skills and gear, which is already hard to do. For me, I would love to see some rare super-hard arkfalls or co-op maps which are very hard to complete unless you assemble the right team. I want to see some optional (but still EGO-influencing) aspects to the game that are next-to-impossible to solo because they're just so hard. I know that's not for everyone, but that way it can stay not for everyone; those of us who beat it will just get something cool that they don't.

Basically, in the end, I like my skill level to factor into what I get. Right now, Defiance is very time-based more so than skill-based. Anybody can do anything - even the worst player can hit EGO 4000 before some of the best ones if they just spend all day doing it. That shouldn't be the case entirely. Sure, time matters, but I would like to see some kind of limitations to time-based playing where players who get enough team-based skill can tackle missions that are more difficult.

Because this makes the game, as you said:

1. Fun
2. Replay value (because otherwise we'll get bored if there's no challenge)

[SETit_allABLAZE]

How is "Nim should be nerfed a wee bit" - not crying or complaining? It is both!

How is that crying or complaining..... Grow up kid, its talking about how they thought he was hard.

[SandmanSix8]

I agree. I did manage to complete the quest but I wanted to kick the developer who made Nim in the teeth by the time I was done.

All I can suggest is on the first round make sure you are rolling to the side early when he does his blitz charge. Use combat shotguns as your primary weapon. They seem to work best as you often do not have time to aim down the sights. Do not use pump shotguns as you will never have time to reload them, as much as you will need to roll. Need a shottie with a clip in it.

On the second round, I found a SMG worked best as again you don't have much time to aim down the sights, but you want something more accurate than a shotgun. (Actually, shotgun works too for when he gets up close.) You can easily tell which one is the clone once he jumps up in the air, as only the real boss will do that. When he goes up to the balcony, if you can't find the real one in the first few seconds, forget about it. Focus on chain rolling away from the things he throws.

In the third round, hump a pillar. That is the only way you will survive. Whatever side of the pillar he is on, get to the immediate other side, asap. Also, note that when he does his big spinning flame attack he will teleport behind you, so as soon as you see him disappear, run to the opposite side of the pillar. This is by far the hardest of the three phases, if only because sometimes you will be unlucky and get caught in his AOE.

Overall, this guy is ridiculous. More frustrating than fun.

I agree this battle is terrible, this is akin to programmers thinking it's so cool while the rest of us think this is too rough, but hey forget the storyline you are aren't good enough to know it, is the message this type of gameplay invokes.

Was this team previous Ubisoft programmers who thought chasing flags was fun too? This boss makes me want my money back, if this is the pinnacle of the storyline quest, I will never, EVER see it. So thanks Trion I appreciate the good writing, but really wish I could see the end result.

[Ellienna]

To repeat what I've posted in other threads on the subject, more or less:

I came to this game as an MMO player (SWG, still playing STO, TSW, LotRO and others) and I've always used a mouse for movement. I'm trying hard to adapt to using the WASD keys and I've never played many console games, simply because I couldn't get the hang of using a controller. My family found it hilarious when Lara spent more time bouncing off walls than she did walking in a straight line!

My fingers haven't had years of training in moving around a small area of the keyboard and I just do not have the fast automatic reflexes that are needed for Nim. Reading all the various threads on this, I'm not alone.

I'm not asking for a nerf, I'm asking for the option to duo this, even if the difficulty is scaleable to the numbers in the group. I have no objection to taking on a challenge, but to block progress in the main story in this way is unfair.

I've seen players citing LotRO as an example of forced soloing, but you receive an extra buff to health in order to survive more easily. However none of the solo quests there require such intensive dodge skills as Nim does.

I cannot complete this quest. On attempting, I die repeatedly, even though I've watched chefwhitey's video several times and read all the advice. It's great that so many players can complete this, some even on their first attempt and I congratulate you. For me, this quest is just not doable.

[twitch reflex]

Asking for co op for a single player boss is a nerf. It's way bigger nerf then adding a difficulty setting with different rewards. Not to mention it would make both veteran players who found it easy happy as well. I know it sucks if your stuck but adding co op is just a nerf while adding the difficulty setting is both a nerf and a challenge. So please stop asking for co op because some of us want it more challenging.

[bman]

OP Dude you are spot on i couldnt agree more with you . i bet i tried to beat him 100 times or more at least 100 even thogh i kno it was way more than that. at 1 point i got to his third battle i finally give up an said frack it an canceled it and refuse to do it til something is done about his health or dmg reduced bck a bit or something .

[SHaDoWeD_SiN]

Nim doesn't need a nerf. The first 2 or 3 times you'll die, but once you realize he has a pattern, it becomes an annoying cakewalk. If anything, he needs more variety and needs to be more challenging, not just a front-flip spamming annoying end-boss.

[SHaDoWeD_SiN]

OP Dude you are spot on i couldnt agree more with you . i bet i tried to beat him 100 times or more at least 100 even thogh i kno it was way more than that. at 1 point i got to his third battle i finally give up an said frack it an canceled it and refuse to do it til something is done about his health or dmg reduced bck a bit or something .

You're not doing it right then unfortunately and you're also exaggerating heavily. He's easy after you figure out his pattern. Use a shotgun and hide behind cover (I bet you thought that staying in the open was the best solution... 100+ times, correct? No one is this stupid). Let him come to you and I guarantee you your opinion will do a 180. Don't cry for a nerf because you had difficulty with him. Challenges are good, and it's annoying when the people who just want things handed to them and don't really want to put "effort" into anything want something changed.

[Grimlin429]

All 3 phases of Nim can be beaten with a single BMG that slows enemies down.

You find that and use decoy and you wont loose.

Just dont let him hit you and recognize his attack animations. Its easy enough to move behind a wall when he winds up his sumersault AOE

This is so true. I play support with Decoy ability main weapon a BMG and secondary a shotgun or LMG. I beat him in under 7 min with no downs. 3 easy steps. RUN. HEAL. SHOOT. But i agree with a lot that i being said in this forum. I was EGO 564 when i took him on(but a lot of my perks were revive based, or less dmg from behind.) and agree you should have an EGO above 300 before taking him on. I agree that he defiantly feels like a group boss. I would like to see difficulty levels for boss or dungeons. I think there are gamers out there that would find this overbearing. Some people will find things more difficult then others its just being human. So arguing they need to step it up and stop being butt hurt, is just plain rude.