Your opinions on the level of interaction between both Defiance game and show?

[EdgeTW]

Notice: Discussions about Episode 2 connection attempts > begins here at this link < .

When I first heard about Defiance being both a game and a show, I immediately thought "gimmick". However, if you allow yourself to believe how both game and show developers described the interaction between the two mediums, you're probably expecting something a fair bit grander.

I was fairly happy with the four-part episode series of missions available in the game of Defiance. The game writers gave us a story that allowed us to adventure alongside two key characters from the show (Nolan and Irisa). I would say that if you buy into the advertisement hype coming from both Trion and SyFY in the two video links above, then that's probably the minimum level of interaction players are hoping to see. Hopefully they can keep that up in the months to come.

However, on the television side of Defiance, the show writers made a very different effort. The Libera Nova gem (the objective of your adventure with Nolan and Irisa in-game) was mentioned only in passing, referred to as a "whatsit" while fishing it from a bag, along with Nolan making a one-line complaint about how difficult it was to obtain when it's confiscated by a raider. And that was really about it.

To me, the show references fell far short of the effort the game writers put forward to link both mediums together. In comparison, I felt like the show writers were just checking off a "make sure to include game reference" point on a "need to do" checklist rather than really trying to weave the show and game together. And that was disappointing.

Now, I really wasn't expecting anything major. Ten seconds of dialogue would have done it for me.. perhaps something like this (and, forgive me, I'm no writer) :

Nolan: (looks over the Libera Nova gem)

Irisa: "Don't tell me you're still frustrated about what happened out west?"

Nolan: "That Ark Hunter saved our lives, and was left holding the bag while we ran off with everything. It wasn't my proudest moment."

Nolan: (momentary thoughtful stare before inserting the Libera Nova gem into the ship's terra-spire)

A moment like that could have gone a long way, in 1) helping the game players feel directly linked to the show, 2) perhaps generating interest in the game amongst show watchers who aren't playing it yet, and 3) using remorse to reinforce the idea that Nolan isn't a total jerk on his journey towards being the hero of the show (because, honestly, the game didn't leave players with the finest of impressions, and here was a cross-medium opportunity to refine that).

Now, some will argue that you shouldn't mention events that happen off-camera within the confines of the show. I don't believe that's true anymore with modern mediums, where popular programs often include web-episodes that are then referenced during television episodes, or games referencing events that occurred in novels.

And that goes double for a property that sells itself as both a game and a show which are (in theory) joined at the hip. If show viewers (who are not playing the game) hear that characters in the show are having adventures beyond the confines of the show, they may be more interested in checking the game out. And, look.. the sad truth is the show writers spent far more time talking about an off-screen affair between Nolan and an alien female during the opening driving sequence in the roller than they did talking about his off-screen adventure with your Arkhunter. Where are the priorities? Both were character building moments but only one created a bridge between the two mediums (which is supposed to be a major selling point of this project).

In the end, for me it's as simple as looking at the effort put forth by the game writers, and looking at the effort put forth by the show writers, and I can't help but ask: was that the best the latter could do? Already we're hearing that season 1 of the show has been filmed and they're now working on season 2.. so, already it's obvious that the level of influence the game will have on the show is minimal at best. It's much more likely the show will influence the game. And that makes these small opportunities for show writers to reference the game from within the show all the more important.. because, apparently, small opportunities are all we're going to get on their end. And, because of that, I feel like they really dropped the ball with this grand plan of theirs.

So, what are your thoughts? How do you feel the game writers are doing at tying the game to the show? How do you feel the show writers are doing at tying the show to the game? Do you feel the level of hype in the videos linked at the beginning of this post matches the start we're off to here at the beginning of this experiment? And are you even buying into the hype from Trion and SyFy, or have you already convinced yourself this will always just be a gimmick?

I want to add that this thread isn't about discussing the quality of the episode (there are plenty of threads for that). Rather, it's about discussing the interaction between the game world and the show world. It is possible to like or dislike the show and be satisfied/unsatisfied with the amount of interaction between the two. So, let's hear your opinions.

[jonwes]

Way too early to tell. I thought the gem and the Ara Shondu references were fun. We don't even know how the show will feed back into new Episode Missions this week yet, though.

I think having Nolan and Irisa talking about us (as the Ark Hunter) would have been WAY too clunky. For the audience, when you talk about something like that, then you expect to see such a character later, not have it exist in a game you may never play. I think that would turn TV audiences off, to be honest, and they need to work independently.

The game is interactive and can be more customized to each player. I expect the show to inform the game content much more than the other way around, especially in the beginning. A TV show only has one version which airs for every one, including non-players. I think people need to keep that in mind. One day we'll have TV shows that can adapt to choices made in a game. That'll be cool. But TV has to change considerably before that can happen.

[EdgeTW]

I think having Nolan and Irisa talking about us (as the Ark Hunter) would have been WAY too clunky. For the audience, when you talk about something like that, then you expect to see such a character later, not have it exist in a game you may never play. I think that would turn TV audiences off, to be honest, and they need to work independently.

I get where you're coming from here, but that philosophy is very much the opposite of the kind of interaction that SyFy and Trion were promising in the video I linked above. What are you thoughts on that? Is their whole pitch of "Watch the Show, Play the Game, Change the World" doomed from the start?

[Fiancee]

Theres gonna be more episosde mission, also characters from the show gives us quest to the game, also theres something they called as "beats" I suppose somekind of events that will affect the show and vice versa.

Example they gave, theres some doctor, and needs cure in the show and players need to give it to him. Question is how much he needs and how much we give? If he doesnt get enough, something bad happens.

How about we watch the show, before you guys get the ****-boat going.

[Archellion]

I think the first season of the show will have very minimal "interaction" between the two mediums; mainly because it's already "in the can." So, our interaction will be unidirectional, from the show to the game. However, I think subsequent seasons have much more potential for the game to influence the show.

I've previously recounted, on these forums, how Alderac Entertainment Group did something similar in their CCG, "Legend of the Five Rings," by which the way players constructed their decks in certain tournaments influenced the next expansion for the game. I think the TV show could be similarly influenced by our gaming in the next season. The opportunity for immediate feedback would be limited, at best, but a more overarching change could be affected by the players. This change would have to be executed in such a manner as to not leave the non-gaming audience confused about the cause. They can't feel as if they've missed something significant. It will either need to be sufficiently expounded for them, or introduced in a way that makes its origins unimportant to the TV show-only crowd.

[Enepttastic]

My opinion? The best time to critique something that's story-based is when the story has ended, and if that may not be possible, waiting for at least a few chapters in before *****ing.

[Dinova]

Wasnt it in the pilot Nolan said something like 'how much it took him' to get hold of that gem?

The freaking bastard, puts us in the frontline shooting stuff, he nicks the gem and says 'he went through alot'?

[jonwes]

I get where you're coming from here, but that philosophy is very much the opposite of the kind of interaction that SyFy and Trion were promising in the video I linked above. What are you thoughts on that? Is their whole pitch of "Watch the Show, Play the Game, Change the World" doomed from the start?

I still think it's a bit too early to say one way or another that way. They have hinted that even more activity could be achieved in season 2. I think in season 1 we'll see some characters pop up (they gave examples of wanted posters electronically added in post with character pics, IIRC) and maybe some mentions (I suppose they could dub in someone's name if a character's back is turned) but for the most part Season 1 is already filmed. So interaction on the fly with the rigors of television production isn't going to happen. So what we'll see are cross-pollination of characters and events, I think. The whole thing about finding a cure for an epidemic that's mentioned on the show is a good example.

I think it's best to think of this as Step 1 in making something like this work, and it can just grow from there. If they get an audience and player base built up, I'm sure they can come up with more inventive ways of getting the interaction in the future.

Wasnt it in the pilot Nolan said something like 'how much it took him' to get hold of that gem?

The freaking bastard, puts us in the frontline shooting stuff, he nicks the gem and says 'he went through alot'?

LOL - well, they did go on the mission with us. So they did some work! And in my mission they got shot a lot and were crawling around for a good amount of the time. LOL.

[Wraethrax]

Yeah, waaaaaay to early for a critique. I'm going to be very patient as to how this plays out. It's a pretty novel idea and it's not like there's a tried and true formula for this. I'm thinking that it will take a while for them to hit their stride. I enjoyed the show and I'm enjoying the game. I hope both survive long enough to see it all play out.

[EdgeTW]

I think having Nolan and Irisa talking about us (as the Ark Hunter) would have been WAY too clunky. For the audience, when you talk about something like that, then you expect to see such a character later, not have it exist in a game you may never play. I think that would turn TV audiences off, to be honest, and they need to work independently.

I get where you're coming from here, but that philosophy is very much the opposite of the kind of interaction that SyFy and Trion were promising in the video I linked above. What are you thoughts on that? Is their whole pitch of "Watch the Show, Play the Game, Change the World" doomed from the start?

I just want to add to this comment because I realize not everyone may have access to those Youtube links at this moment, so here is the transcript from the Defiance description videos made by members of SyFy and Trion:

"Defiance is actually two things.

One is a serialized drama for television, and the other is a massive multiplayer online game.

Both properties are tied together and work as one.

The game of Defiance takes place in San Francisco. And the TV show takes place in St. Louis. But it's a shared universe.

The events of that virtual world will actually affect the story and the world of our show, and visa versa.

There's never been a time when a television network and a video game company have come together from the start to create something like this.

It's never been attempted before, it's truly at the forefront of immersive storytelling experiences. It's the holy grail of entertainment.

The experience of one is going to enhance the experience of the other in ways that are both overt and also very subtle.

Immersive stories on two platforms that are seamlessly living together.

The real crossovers happen while the seasons going. Since we planned from the very beginning to do this, things like a character leaving the game and going to the show and talking about what they did in the game.

You have the same vehicles, the same technology, the same flora, the same fauna.

You can inhabit the world as a player that's actively moving through the world of Defiance, and you can turn on the TV, and sit back, and watch great drama unfold.

We'll be transitioning from the real world to the game world and back again.

The show and the game constantly reinforce each other. And battles in the game might change the outcome of the TV show. Big events in the TV show are immediately reflected in the game.

It's just a really amazing way to have that fan interaction.

Through this level of interconnectivity between the two mediums we're creating this sort of.. super product. It's is part of the fun of working on Defiance.

It really allows both companies to bring what they do best to the table and create something that has never been done before.

It is one of the most ground breaking entertainment experiences ever created."

And, specifically, to address the concerns about it being "too clunky" to talk about game events in the show, there is this statement from the above quotes: "Since we planned from the very beginning to do this, things like a character leaving the game and going to the show and talking about what they did in the game.". I mean, that's exactly what you're saying they should avoid doing, but that's exactly what they say they plan on doing, on purpose.