really constructive input there gtr .. thanks so much for your meaningful evaluation. so .. are you 12 or 13?
really constructive input there gtr .. thanks so much for your meaningful evaluation. so .. are you 12 or 13?
This is a good topic. One that has been hashed a lot but still a good one. Also, downloading patch so what else to do?
There are I think 2 issues dominating MMOs right now.
One: Free to Play (FFP)/Buy or Play (BTP) VERSES Pay to play (PtP).
Two: Easy or Hard. Now this has other terms... Themepark vs. Sandbox... carebear vs. hardcore
We won't get into topic on specifically but it does factor into topic two.
A lot of upcoming games that are AAA are trying to do both. Here is the issue with trying to do both. If you get one half wrong the whole thing goes to crap. Let's first get to type of gamers before we go further in this discussion.
There are I think 3 types of gamers:
1. Young with a lot of time.
2. Crazy with a lot of time.
3. Old timers (me and the OPer)
Young will play anything FTP and will whine about anything in a FTP game that gives OT any time of advantage. I think what these young people fail to understand is that time=money in a lot of ways. A young person will complain about skill boosts or shortcuts because they feel it is so unfair that someone who has money can bypass the hours of grinding they that did. Well let me tell you young folks, I think it is so unfair that I have to work 40 to 50 hours a week while you can play this game 40 to 50 hours a week. But I see your point. If they game was just truly Pay to Win well it will lose people once you "win". Whatever that might mean in an MMO.
Then there are crazy people. These are the guys that will crush the game, exploit the game, and basically rule the game. These are they guys that make developers stay up at night. These nutjobs who will break their game in ways no beta-tester can ever prepare them for. I use to be one on UO and Evercrack. To these people what can you do but hope they will get some help. They don't care about you or even the game. Their mission is to conquer the game because life is not that great right now or maybe ever has been. They want to rule the game or break it and move on to their next conquest.
Old Timers: As one, I got a message for you folks. STOP REMINISCING. EQ was great, it was, but come on. It had its flaws. I do not want to camp froglocks for 3 fraken hours to get a stupid kukuri. I don't want to get trained while waiting to camp so I get maybe get that drop that only happens like once every 100 kills. Then I have to lotto with my friends and pray I get it. That level of frustration is not needed in a game. If you old timers want that, dude get help! Or go buy Darkfall. OTers remember the past games like they were these flawless pieces of work but OMG, EQ launch was the worst ever. But it was also the 2nd MMO ever so that was to be expected. EQ had a crap load of problems. Ultima Online (the truly first MMO) had crazy problems. But we OTers don't remember the bad. We just seem to remember the good. That being said OTers seem to like a "challenge". They need a sense of accomplishment in their games. We did not have hint books, or webpages that guided us every step of the way. It is what the OTers are.
These three basic player base is so diverse that it is near impossible to make a game that pleases all three. There is just no way. I honestly don't know why people play WoW. I don't. I mean it is the definition of themepark MMO. That being said there is not a single game that has come close to its success. That says something right? So many people hold on to their WoW accounts. I have friends who have not played for over a year and they still know their login and pwd. I am like, dude why? Let it go. But they can't. I don't know what Blizzard does, but they create loyalty like I have not seen outside of historical models like Nazis and Crusaders and Terrorists. There are people still playing Diablo 2. How is that possible? Star Craft basically corrupted an entire countries' children. I don't get it.
Sorry rambling... Defiance... what are they trying to do. Well at first blush they are obviously trying to merge Call of Duty with MMO. For that it was bold because it is a "frontier" type endeavor. And any such endeavor is gonna suck at first. Most likely the 2nd title that tries to do this will be much better (sorry Trion, but you know it is true). First classic mistake was chat. We PC/MMO gamers look at chat and think... WTF were they thinking? But really, if you are a Call of Duty type gamer, who cares about chat. I can almost see the conversation during development...
Dev 1: What about chat we will need chat. It is an MMO we need chat.
Dev 2: No, we are different, we will have VOIP. Everyone uses some type of voice over client.
Dev 1: Ok, but we need to put something in.
Dev 2: Ok, I will take care of it. We will put in a token Chat box.
Huge mistake. MMO is first and RPG or FPS is second. It is not a Role Playing Game that is also Massively Multiplayer. It is a Massively Multiplayer that is incidentally using a RPG or FPS type scenario.
Second huge mistake: Pad vs. Keyboard. I had trouble with Chicken ranch hot shot. I HAVE NO IDEA HOW SOMEONE WITH A CONSOLE WOULD EVER BE ABLE TO DO THAT! My lord, no fraken way. But I would give my left nut to be able to do the time trials with my xbox controller. My "w" key is like a millimeter thinner than the other keys because I crushed it doing those trials. (oh hint: change "thrust" to left mouse button. So much better and easier.) So, the mistake is that not only are they trying to please 3 different type of MMO gamers, they are trying to also please two distinct gamers, the PC and Console kind. Just not gonna happen.
Defiance is trying to do too much and kudos to them for trying and for trying they got my support (at least until ESO comes out). Their ambition might well sink them, but if they can pull it off... well maybe they can finally kill WoW. I am banking it will be ESO (Please let it be, please please please!!!) but so far the most impressive thing about defiance is that their lead dev is actually talking to us through posts. When does that ever happen? And he admits the launch was a disaster. That is encouraging right?
Oh I completely agree. Even if it doesn't involve pre-planning necessarily, it keeps tension high in-combat -- you always know that screwing up is a big deal. I like that. That is fun for me. It's an aspect that is sadly missing from most games nowadays.Originally Posted by Hunts55
People seem to want all elements of risk removed from their games, or at least that is clearly the perception of developers.
Seriously right?
Really? You don't miss training the zone-in? This was frustrating/awesome especially when your guild was racing another guild to a dragon or a mob that had a 3 day spawn timer. Or trying to be the first to break Plane of Fear right after it reset. I miss that kind of guild competition. We had some very competitive guilds on our server (solusek ro).
While I agree with everything you said, I think you missed one aspect of death. No one likes to die. Even if you spawned right then and there you still hate to see your toon go down. And in PVP that is the ultimate incentive; to kill all and never go down. In PVE not so much. I do hope though that co-op bosses are harder. I would like coordinated teamwork rather than then just go and pound. Like simple things. Have a ton of small little mobs running around like nuts so that you need a guy with AOE damage. Have the vulnerable targets be smaller so you need a sniper rifle. Stuff like that.
You must have never met a fan of rogue likes. I'm convinced that they are actually masochists, since that is essentially what those games are built around (dieing repeatedly). Dark Souls too, for that matter.
It was a different era. The first time I did the fire giants and our guild was massing to enter the zone was incredible. I mean it took like almost two hours for everyone to get to the rally point, but to see people popping in and then to go into zone and the sheer chaos, well it was amazing. But if some game today told me I had to wait days and "sign up" to do a zone, I would say Frak you and uninstall the game. I hated the zone trains. Remember how it became a way of griefing? Yeah don't miss the wait or the trains at all. Or the sheer mountain of etiquette you had to know or they would like shun you.
had to stop playing dark souls. I like a tough game but that game was just stupid. I nearly snapped my controller in two.
yes I agree and disagree with you. the chaos was fun a few times but not every time. I mostly just agree with your feeling about how they installed easy mode on every game since then. WoW killed challenge.
Posting Permissions
Reply With Quote