Who else has quit this game?

[Catnipthief]

Waaaaaaah.

Bullets go through people? Are you high? My bullets kill people. Maybe you're shooting blanks...
Weapons disappearing? Stop using the salvage matrix.
No keycodes? I've got plenty. Are you complaining that the amount from roadside events was reduced? It was never intended to be that high.
Pursuits not completing? Which ones? I haven't had any trouble finishing pursuits.
Can't talk to friends? They fixed the chat, what are you complaining about? It works fine now.
Hackers...ok I'll give you that one. It sucks.
Same for Capture and Hold, I dunno what's going on with that.

The game is still fun. And you "wasted your time"? It's a video game! Even if it was a ton of fun and the best damn game in the entire freaking universe it's still a waste of time!!!

The bullet thing might be referencing going through the enemies, i've actually had this happen a few times in some some key missions, which ended up not being good for me in the end

I'm not sure about the rest, everything else has been (for the most part) working fine for me.

[z0e]

I love this game, i knew taking it slow and doing side missions would extend game play. I just like to have fun with it, not worried about the whining.

[Angeleus09]

...This is a short MMO, there is incredibly little to do, and the lack of end game will absolutely hurt its longevity. Those are facts - not opinions...

Well one is relative and the other remains to be seen.

...You've spoken against multiple characters, variety in gameplay (Which is what multiple classes ENCOURAGES, variety in gameplay. If you think switching from cloak to blur is genuine variety, you're simply naive...

I definitely understand the appeal of multiple characters, I'm just glad I don't have to create multiple characters in order to try out the different powers and builds. When you say "genuine variety" you mean you want the ability to use either a ranged weapon, a melee weapon or no weapon at all and be equally effective, right? Or do you mean you want the traditionally defined roles of tank, DPS, ranged and healer?

I could say something like "If you think switching from Two-Handed Mallet to One-Handed+Shield is real variety, you're simply naive," but I also want to address the class system issue. For the same reason I appreciate not being forced to create multiple characters in order to use different ability sets, I appreciate the ability to select whatever abilities I want to use at the moment without being shoehorned into a specific role by a rigid, traditional class system.

The next logical objection would be something like, "No matter what ability and perks you choose, you're still just shooting things so it doesn't really make a difference if you turn invisible or your arm starts glowing red when you hit L2." Now that would be a good point except this was always billed as an MMOTPS with the emphasis on the TPS part in terms of gameplay. That's kind of like saying, "I'm disappointed that I can't use a mace in Uncharted multiplayer," or me saying it sucks that I can't cast Orbital Strike with lasers or drive around a tank in WoW.

Let's say for example though that Trion did go with a more traditional class system, it wouldn't be hard, would it? Off the top of my head it would look like this:

• Heavy Gunner (tank) with chain guns, rocket launchers and ridiculous shield abilities.
• Marksman (ranged DPS) with sniper rifles, remote charges and a stealth ability.
• Engineer (support/DPS) who sets up turrets and drops ammo and shield buffs.
• Commando (DPS) who uses ARs, SMGs and shotguns for mid to close range coverage and has a Blur+Overcharge ability.
• Medic (healer) who of course rezzes people, drops health packs and provides BMG-like real time healing.

Great, we have a traditional class system, now what? Well now it doesn't fit if you look at the rest of the game design. Think about it, Defiance doesn't have a traditional character level system so as not to limit who you can play with based on playtime. It doesn't have a traditional tiered loot progression system so as not to limit who you can play with and what content you can play based on gear quality. Why would they implement an ability paradigm that limits your grouping options based on class?

I appreciate the fact I don't have to sit in LFG waiting for a healer or a second DPSer to start. Or wait for an invite because there are too many tanks logged into the server currently. Plus can you really imagine playing this game if you couldn't heal yourself or rez another player unless you were a Medic?

you've spoken against end-game raids, end-game tier loot, progression in characters, etc.etc. fair enough man, to each his own. But the fact is the only few MMOs that ever truly reached commercial success did so for a reason - Because they offered all those things. Those things give a game longevity and replay value, Defiance has none of either.

To be clear I'm not against traditional end-game raids or tiered loot progression as a concept in general. I've played MMOs for the last 10 years or so and I've done my fair share of raiding. But I've played those games and gotten tired of that grind so at this point I appreciate that I have the option to play an MMO without that aspect.

I've had a blast playing Defiance because I do so in incredibly small dosages. I'm still at what I'd compare to "leveling up" in WoW.

Same here. I'm lucky if I can get in 2-3 hours a night and I can probably only play 3-4 nights a week. I still see hours and hours of content in front of me and that's probably why I have the attitude I do towards Defiance.

The difference is, thats ALL Defiance offers. There is no other world that opens up when you reach a certain level (max level in any other MMO). Theres the story you play as you level and the sidequests along the way (Like every MMO in existence), but then theres zero, nothingness, an open world full of useless empty space. keep repeating the same arkfalls for the same rewards you acquired at level 1 or doing the same PVP you did at lvl 1. Nothing changes, there are no fresh unique experiences to enjoy as you progress farther into the game.

It could be argued that you keep repeating the same Arkfalls, much like you keep repeating the same raids. In any traditional MMORPG what is there after you beat the last raid? Nothing. At least until the next patch or DLC.

I already said in an earlier post one of my criticisms is that there isn't anything that unlocks after beating the Season One boss. Another criticism is that there should absolutely be more PvP maps and game types. I'd like to see some King of the Hill, Vampire, Gun Game, a co-op horde mode and a vehicle combat option along with more map variety. I also said earlier that I want Trion to get everything that's supposed to be in the game currently working 100% before they go trying to add more.

This is a bare-bones experience, and I again say kudos to all who truly love it, but this games lack of content will more than reflect in its utter lack of player base in due time. WoW is by far the most successful game ever because of unlimited replay value. They will make phenomenal profit on this game because of the utter lack of development behind it, the lack of resources put towards improving it, and because of their store. But commercially, by the numbers, I feel this game will fail. If it does, it can't really be defended that they shot themselves in the foot via poor design decisions. So lets wait and see how this community develops but I don't see Defiance growing much more at all. Its difficult to work your way out of the horrendous reputation this game has already adopted in the area of technical performance and end-game content. Those things turn off too many MMO fans.

Those things turn off fans of traditional MMORPGs, not necessarily MMO fans in general. For example, me and everyone else in this thread (and all the near identical threads across the board) who are saying that we like what's on offer and while we think there's room for improvement we're still having fun and will stick with the game to see how it turns out.

I also want to point out that earlier in the thread you said you didn't feel like you got your money's worth from having paid $60 for this game and that's a common sentiment among the detractors. At a 67 hour /played time, you have paid $1.12 for each hour of gametime (I can think of several $60 games that I only got 10 or 12 hours from) and the more you play the lower that number is going to get. Complete the content available, take a break, it won't cost you anything to do so.

Defiance might be missing traditional raids, but it is also missing that traditional monthly fee, a trade off I and others are more than happy to make. And that's the balance in this particular equation.

If you were to take the cost of another MMO you've played with a sub fee and add up the initial cost of the game, the cost of all the expansions you've bought, gold you paid real money for and then add all the sub fees together, how much would you have spent on that one game? I'm willing to bet it would be a couple few hundred dollars provided you've been with it a few years. Now that will break down to something like $0.12/hour of game time but line that total up against the $60 you dropped on this game and that subscription dang well better have given you all that content.

If the player base isn't there (Which obviously remains to be determined, this game sold a lot early based on hype but few players got the experience they expected), thats actually exactly what it means. Lets see how this plays out.

Agree we will have to wait and see how this plays out. Hopefully Trion gets the technical issues in hand sooner rather than later and oils the squeaky wheels just enough to allow those of us who either got exactly what they were expecting or are just enjoying the game for what it is to weather the storm of doom and gloom from all the traditional MMORPG players who are disappointed because this isn't the game they were expecting it to be.

[Angeleus09]

I pretty much agree with all of this, people keep telling me but it's not an mmorpg, if that is the case why is there a perk based system, why is there varying levels of loot (There isnt really, but orange is awesome right?) If Trion just wanted this game as a mmotps then why not just have one of each weapon, after all it's the shooting all you guys like right? For the rest of us we enjoy seeing our toons develop, get stronger as we play, not play for hours on end just to be the same as when you started. Before anyone comes in with the weapon system is to keep PvP balanced, not all of us enjoy PvP. They should be two completely different modes entirely.

I'm not asking for WoW with guns, all im asking for is Trion are going to put mmorpg elements into the game don't do a half assed job about it. Either do it properly or don't do it at all, I enjoyed Dcuo when it was first released, why, because my toon developed as i played the game.
Weapons don't matter in this, i can beat the whole game with a white weapon and have no problems, so what is the point in it being in the game?

Sorry, let me explain it more then...... I can complete every main mission and every side quest mission with a white starter weapon. So again, what is the point?

Exactly, so why is the weapon mechanic in the game if it makes no difference. See where im going with this?

The answer to your question: because depth isn't a zero sum game. It's doesn't have to be all or nothing to be worth including.

Think about it, when did CoD absolutely blow up and become a permanent staple of online gaming? When the introduced a multiplayer mode that included perks and loadouts and the ability to level your character to Prestige as well as modify your gun. Clearly I'm not saying Defiance's PvP is on par with CoD's but you get my point.

I mentioned in an earlier post that Trion could have opted to make character progression in PvE separate from character progression in PvP but if they had done so there would be a significant amount of complaining from people wanting to know why they couldn't use their same character/weapons/shield/grenades. It stinks you don't enjoy PvP, but it is what it is.

And yes Orange weapons are better! And orange weapons unlocked at ER 1500 are better than orange weapons unlocked at 500. I saw a screenshot of an orange AR with a "reload 25% of clip on a kill" ability. Really? I'd love to have a gun that reloaded 1/4 of the clip every time I killed something! That's less time in the reload animation and more time outputting DPS. You certainly aren't getting that on a weapon at ER 50 even if the base damage per shot is the same.

[nosworc]

The answer to your question: because depth isn't a zero sum game. It's doesn't have to be all or nothing to be worth including.

Think about it, when did CoD absolutely blow up and become a permanent staple of online gaming? When the introduced a multiplayer mode that included perks and loadouts and the ability to level your character to Prestige as well as modify your gun. Clearly I'm not saying Defiance's PvP is on par with CoD's but you get my point.

I mentioned in an earlier post that Trion could have opted to make character progression in PvE separate from character progression in PvP but if they had done so there would be a significant amount of complaining from people wanting to know why they couldn't use their same character/weapons/shield/grenades. It stinks you don't enjoy PvP, but it is what it is.

And yes Orange weapons are better! And orange weapons unlocked at ER 1500 are better than orange weapons unlocked at 500. I saw a screenshot of an orange AR with a "reload 25% of clip on a kill" ability. Really? I'd love to have a gun that reloaded 1/4 of the clip every time I killed something! That's less time in the reload animation and more time outputting DPS. You certainly aren't getting that on a weapon at ER 50 even if the base damage per shot is the same.

I totally understand what you are saying, it's probably because i come from traditional mmorpg's is the main reason i am finding it hard to get my head around the loot system as it is at the moment.
It just seems all so trivial i honestly don't see the point, even having an assault rifle with that extra 25% reload on a kill, i can still do the same thing with a white starter weapon, it just takes a couple of reloads to do it. Is that really worth Legendary status?
I guess it just comes down to fact i need to see improvement on my character if i put in hours of gameplay, i haven't given up on Defiance though, just not the game i was hoping for at the moment.

[Valethar]

I think it's hysterical that people still don't understand that Defiance is not an MMORPG.

[nosworc]

I think it's hysterical that people still don't understand that Defiance is not an MMORPG.

You're easily amused. It isn't a traditional mmorpg but saying it doesn't have rpg elements in it is just flat out wrong.

[Tayan]

It's not even a question about traditional or not traditional.
It is obvious enough to see that this mmotps simply has some light rpg elements to keep you busy after finishing the storyline.

It blends GTA open world with COD multiplayer Perks.

[Angeleus09]

I totally understand what you are saying, it's probably because i come from traditional mmorpg's is the main reason i am finding it hard to get my head around the loot system as it is at the moment.
It just seems all so trivial i honestly don't see the point, even having an assault rifle with that extra 25% reload on a kill, i can still do the same thing with a white starter weapon, it just takes a couple of reloads to do it. Is that really worth Legendary status?
I guess it just comes down to fact i need to see improvement on my character if i put in hours of gameplay, i haven't given up on Defiance though, just not the game i was hoping for at the moment.

And I completely understand where you're coming from in terms of what you'd like to see. On the matter of Legendary versus Common loot yes those seemingly small bonuses make a world of difference. I'll give an example based on the gun mentioned but for a really awesome breakdown of exactly how mods and bonuses can affect damage output (along with a great list of available synergies) you've got to give this thread a read.

As for the AR with 25% of clip reloaded after each kill let's see how that translates into DPS.

We'll say base damage of 222 with a 50 shot clip. That's 11,100 damage per clip. Let's say it takes 7 seconds to empty the clip in a go which gives us 1586 DPS. Now let's say the reload animation (without any perks) takes 3 seconds. For a period of 30 seconds you're at 33,300 total damage but down to 1110 DPS due to reload time so you've lost almost 1/3 of your potential DPS.

1/4 of a 50 shot clip is 12.5 which translates to 2775 total damage, not factoring in possible headshot/crit damage. Now this is an optimum situation but if you can kill your target in 12 shots or less (4 bursts of three shots each on an AR) then you get that ammo back without spending time in the reload animation. For this example that would mean you can effectively fire 4.3 clips worth of ammo in 30 seconds for a total damage output of 47,571 and a continuous 1586 DPS.

33,300 total damage at 1110 DPS vs. 47,571 total damage at 1585 DPS over 30 seconds of combat before mods or crits. Does that seem like an acceptable difference between a common weapon and a legendary one?

[sirreal420]

i can honestly say i am more than likely on my way out as well, the fact that theres so many major things wrong with this game, and none are getting fixed has completely discouraged me and heaven forbid you post anything negative in the fourms, as you post will be deleted in a matter of seconds.....if only they cared about the game as much as they care about these fourms.....