Defiance's payment model is killing this game

[Soren]

No thanks, free MMOs are a joke:

- They are either totally pay 2 win (Runes of magic for example) or are somewhat pay to win (WoT, LOTRO, etc)
- Not really free - LOTRO, if you want to play the whole game (PvP as a freep) you need to sub, most people pay for expansions either directly or by buying points on sale weekends.
- The best MMOs (in terms of quality/support, etc) are still sub based - WoW, Rift, EVE, etc.
- The qulaity of free MMOs is terrible, look at how the quality has dropped in LOTRO since they went semi-f2p (since Moria) and not just content, but the performance of their servers.

They notion that you can have "free" MMOs that require a vast amount of resources (both hardware and humans) is frankly idiotic, perhaps you should find some friends who are not so cheap.

F2P is pretty much designed around reeling suckers in and nickel/diming them for whatever they're worth. Some F2Ps don't put the pressure on you (such as DCUO, up until endgame at least), but plenty of others do to varying degrees (such as TOR's "pay for action bars" junk), and most still rely on Subscriptions to where you're usually better off Subbing in order to avoid paying ridiculous prices for content packs or such.

Overall "Free to Play" is just a horribly misleading name that's used to lure more people than normal into these games. They should add a * or something at the end at least, with super tiny text reading: "With restrictions until you subscribe or start paying".

Now, there are some pretty darn fun F2Ps out there, and a lot of higher quality ones nowadays. The only thing is that their cash shop can make/break the game for me. Examples being Mabinogi, Age of Wushu, LotRO, SWTOR, Allods Online, Spiral Knights, etc.

IMO Buy to Play is a better choice than Free to Play. You give some money to support the developer, and then you basically get to play through the game entirely without restrictions (until DLC/expansions show up).

[Technodude]

F2P is pretty much designed around reeling suckers in and nickel/diming them for whatever they're worth. Some F2Ps don't put the pressure on you (such as DCUO, up until endgame at least), but plenty of others do to varying degrees (such as TOR's "pay for action bars" junk), and most still rely on Subscriptions to where you're usually better off Subbing in order to avoid paying ridiculous prices for content packs or such.

Overall "Free to Play" is just a horribly misleading name that's used to lure more people than normal into these games. They should add a * or something at the end at least, with super tiny text reading: "With restrictions until you subscribe or start paying".

F2P and B2P are essentially the same when it comes to in game shops. Only difference is that in B2P you pay for the client and in F2P you don't. Unless you play cheap Asian F2P MMOS then it is another story. But if you compare all western F2P games with three B2P titles like GW2, TSW and Defiance you will see that in game shop works the same. All they sell is cosmetic items, boosters etc and no pay to win items.

[fang1192]

(This is my opinion not fact)

This game is just doing what all the other recent releases are doing. They charge a lot at first to get the eager people to pay and in 3-6 months it will just be a free download and they will make their money off the DLC.

Someone didnt do their research.

[Technodude]

Someone didnt do their research.

Well B2P model survives on content updates. That is their main source of income, second is cash shop but in case of Defiance in game shop is bare minimum at this point.

[fang1192]

I meant the DLC model. IIRC they wont segregate their playerbase by gating content - the DLC is more cosmetic stuff i believe. So you get the meat, but not the garnishes.

...im hungry.

How you broke down b2p and f2p is spot on.

[r3dl4nce]

You can buy the game with a good discount from g2play or similar resellers.
B2P is good, look at GW2, that is B2P and is doing great. Or look at single players game, Defiance can give A TON MORE hours of fun for the same price of a single player game

[Eisberg]

Advertising? How else do you explain the existence of youtube, free-to-air television and game companies raking in $$$ from torrents?

again, game companies are not making money from Torrents. If people are getting a game like Max Payne 3 for free from Torrents, they are pirating it, ie They are stealing it, and Rockstar made $0 from that Torrent.

[Defy]

I prefer b2p over pay to play

[Eisberg]

Tell your friends that when they're ready to move up from Popcap games, it's going to cost them more than a couple of bucks.

No it won't. because apparently Rock Star has been making money from his friends pirating Max Payne 3 on Torrents

[sc9000]

I bought this game and I love it, but I cannot convince any of my friends to give it a go. The up-front box price ($60 if you don't shop around!) is a major stumbling block. My friends have been conditioned to believe that gaming should be free or a game should cost at most a couple of dollars.

In this day and age, with the rise of F2P games, beta invites, youtube and Steam sales, this is the accepted norm. My friends can play SWTOR, a $200 million budget MMO with world-class voice acting and far more raids, dungeons and pvp content than this game, and other MMOs like DCUO, LOTRO, War Thunder and World of Tanks for free, and have all signed up for the beta test of TESO to "locust swarm" it and beat it during the invite period. For non-MMOs such as Bioshock Infinite, Skyrim, GTA4 and Max Payne 3 my friends can download the full campaigns of each for free off the internet. Just like youtube, which lets you watch videos for free (with the video creators being paid through advertising), there are these so-called "torrent" sites that game companies use to put up singleplayer-only versions of their games, which they gain revenue off from advertising on the torrent site and by enticing people to purchase the multiplayer-enabled version for real money. This strategy has been a major success, with companies like Rockstar Games going from strength to strength off torrenting and the successor to GTA4 (GTA5) coming soon.

When people can play and own award-winning universally 9/10+ reviewed third-person shooters like Max Payne 3 and Mass Effect 3 for free, how can Trion therefore expect people to pay $60 for a middling third-person shooter that has been panned by critics with 5/10 reviews across the board? I have been ridiculed by my friends for paying top dollar for this game. $60 is not chump change. It's enough for a night at the movies and a restaurant dinner with a significant other, or a night out clubbing, both culminating in a shag. In my friends' opinions, no game is worth more than a shag. I have been called a sucker and a crackwhore for being so addicted to games that I've put down real money to buy Defiance. I've been called a loveless loser who would forego a chance to meet his potential wife for life while out clubbing, because I chose to waste that money on a stupid game.

I have accepted becoming the butt of jokes in my social circle and a pariah because I believe in this game. I will continue to push this game on the people I encounter, even if that means getting laughed in the face for being a paying sucker. But I am only me. I don't believe my $60 can pay for the whole development staff at Trion, even if I spend additional money on the season pass. Trion need to move away from their outdated payment model, of expecting people to PAY for Defiance, if they want to survive and grow as a company. I know Trion have traditionally been sticklers in this regard. With Rift they have stolidly stuck by their P2P sub-based payment model. Look where that's got them. The last I heard, Rift was dead with almost all its servers closed. If this game is going to have any playerbase it needs to be F2P.

It is quite ridiculous. Defiance was marketed as a transmedia event. I can watch the Defiance show for free off SyFy or Amazon Prime's streaming services. Yet people have to pay $60 to get a copy of the game in order to follow the rest of the story. Just like the TV show, the game needs to also be free or people will just watch the show and the game will be left to wither away.

people like this is the reason all of us will, get a crap sequels of games or lame *** DLC's, no more original games. Programmers deserve to put food on the table. Until were in star trek universe then people deserve to get paid for there work , if not they will put out a superman game or a call of duty 99.