Man I wish this game was more like a real MMO

[Nachyo Chez]

Gear progression already ruined enough games, let's leave this one alone.
As Schwa said, harder enemies that need more coordination to put down and offer more game play diversity. That's all we really need. (Though a 'Hard Mode' is never a bad idea)

[Schwa]

Gear progression already ruined enough games, let's leave this one alone.
As Schwa said, harder enemies that need more coordination to put down and offer more game play diversity. That's all we really need. (Though a 'Hard Mode' is never a bad idea)

Hard mode would be awesome, and in a flat game like this it's a bit easier to pull off: just add more enemies to the existing instances. Add a few unique mobs to those instances that have different abilities that compliment the existing enemies' AI and you get a gold star.

[Nachyo Chez]

Hard mode would be awesome, and in a flat game like this it's a bit easier to pull off: just add more enemies to the existing instances. Add a few unique mobs to those instances that have different abilities that compliment the existing enemies' AI and you get a gold star.

Even simpler. They use a detection for when more people come into an area to make the enemies tougher- just start them out on a higher setting. Heck, just sub the normal mobs for all elites. Tons of good options on the already running engine!

[Kid Kablam]

MMO = Massively Multiplayer Online

MMO=/= MMORPG

Any game thats online can be considered an MMO

btw =/= means doesnt equal just incase you didnt pay attention in school

Learn your defenitions before complaining

Also good advice: read the thread before replying.

[nosworc]

Gear progression already ruined enough games, let's leave this one alone.
As Schwa said, harder enemies that need more coordination to put down and offer more game play diversity. That's all we really need. (Though a 'Hard Mode' is never a bad idea)

Ruined what games? As far as i was aware that was the whole point of playing an mmo and more to the point keep people playing because they want that ever elusive piece of gear. The way things are at the moment with Defiance i just dont feel any progress. Where is the sense of acomplishment in running Arkfalls, Co-ops, missions, side missions, for little to no reward. Hell even the faction rep is pointless.

[Warkaiser]

Skill based? The only thing slightly challenging was Nim and even with him i didnt even die. At least with stat based progression you have something to show for the time you put in with the game.

The whole stat based progression thing in the majority of games is kind of an illusion, unless you plan on going and fighting much lower level stuff, which is usually pointless and gives no reward. Sure, you doubled your strength, but the stuff youre fighting also has 2x the hp / defense. End result: Youre just as "strong" in comparison to the new enemies youre fighting as you were when you fought lower level stuff.

Also, thats an RPG thing, nothing to do with MMO. Vertical level / stat / gear progression has been a staple of RPGs since decades before the 1st MMO existed. Defiance not being an RPG though, isnt designed around that same concept. Granted the player skill progression / ramping up of difficulty could use some improvement, and maybe we will see that with the DLCs, but I can just picture it now.... Dozens of threads constantly popping up that the game is too hard now and they cant beat this boss and that boss and its unfair that they cant just grind some arbitrary stat to the point of making the boss fight trivial instead of having to get better as a player.

[Schwa]

Even simpler. They use a detection for when more people come into an area to make the enemies tougher- just start them out on a higher setting. Heck, just sub the normal mobs for all elites. Tons of good options on the already running engine!

The reason I was so specific (more enemies) is because just scaling the enemies' health creates bullet sponges: bullet sponges that still hit like sissies. More targets, especially if it's substantially more, are going to demand use of cover and will turn a group trying to rambo into sausage.

[Nachyo Chez]

The reason I was so specific (more enemies) is because just scaling the enemies' health creates bullet sponges: bullet sponges that still hit like sissies. More targets, especially if it's substantially more, are going to demand use of cover and will turn a group trying to rambo into sausage.

I was under the impression that the mobs also hit harder in those situations (and could have sworn that archer was making me his prison ***** during the last arkfall) but I could absolutely be mistaken. The main point we're both trying to make is that it's completely possible to up the skill with little to no investment from the company themselves.

Ruined what games? As far as i was aware that was the whole point of playing an mmo and more to the point keep people playing because they want that ever elusive piece of gear. The way things are at the moment with Defiance i just dont feel any progress. Where is the sense of acomplishment in running Arkfalls, Co-ops, missions, side missions, for little to no reward. Hell even the faction rep is pointless.

That is certainly the point of some MMOs, but certainly not all. Those're called 'vertical progression'; essentially they create a treadmill of content for you to grind on while they rake in your money. The largest of these currently running is WoW. Now, a clear alternate to that system is Guild Wars (original). You could easily get the top-tier gear and skills inside of a weekend. The 'point' of the game was to experience the amazing content and such. Esentialy the 'point' of the game was to enjoy playing the game. Guild Wars 2 started off bragging to be like the latter, but people who would rather spend hours fighting redundant enemies for the extra +1 on their shoulders complained so loudly that the added stupid amounts of vertical progression.

Hopefully Defiance remains defiant.

[Warkaiser]

Ruined what games? As far as i was aware that was the whole point of playing an mmo and more to the point keep people playing because they want that ever elusive piece of gear. The way things are at the moment with Defiance i just dont feel any progress. Where is the sense of acomplishment in running Arkfalls, Co-ops, missions, side missions, for little to no reward. Hell even the faction rep is pointless.

Unfortunately it has become the point for many people, but its hardly the only reason for playing an MMO. I play MMOs mainly for the challenge of playing against other players, other splay for the social aspect, some for the economical aspects, etc. If I simply wanted to watch my numbers grow, I could get that out of a single player RPG with much better graphics, story, and mechanics.

There are much much better ways to keep people playing a game rather than forcing people through some gear grind just to increase their numbers, then turn around and release new gear with more numbers increasing the gear grind some more. Just look at GW1 (i know, not an actual MMO) with practically nonexistant gear / stat progression. Only 20 levels, hardly any difference between level 1 & 20 gear, and hell you could simply skip it all and create a PvP character with instant level 20. Yet it remained very popular for years and outsold the majority of MMOs over those years. They key there was a mix of well designed and interesting content being added fairly regularly as well as extremely well balanced PvP with lots of teamwork and large variety of builds with multiple counter-builds to those powerful builds.

[nosworc]

There are much much better ways to keep people playing a game rather than forcing people through some gear grind just to increase their numbers.

That is exactly what Defiance is doing though, its a long ego grind but the difference is you get nothing for your efforts. I would much rather earn/grind for some awesome gear and have more gear released to work towards. My point is, that is what keeps people playing. The carrot on the stick so to speak. Maybe i have played WoW for too many years but i just dont see how people are going to stick with this. I actually really enjoyed playing until i realized what way the progression was like, makes me sad more than anything else.