Weapon damage is client side... So is vehicle speed, etc. Way to go Trion, way to go.

[The Govanator]

This DID happen, so there latest so called live streams was from there TEST platforms so they don't look so stupid.
(They also use there Xbox LIVE servers as its only the PC version that has all the memory editors)

Also Hit points are not client side, BUT SHIELDS ARE!

I really would like to know what the devs were smoking when they decided to put so much client side!

that makes sense, I see shields where I have emptied 2 clips and half of another and they barely lost any damn shield at all. i have however seen occasionally those people's names pop up as dead, but I knew they were cheating it wa so obvious, especially the times I'd see people beside myself unloading into them and them not losing their shields while wiping 3 or 4 of us out all by theirselves. compared to the way most people's shields drop for me, which is not a very large difference between noncheaters but enough to account for perks and shield differences, in the end they all drop or some reasonable damage is made except for those shield cheaters with seemingly infinite shield and instant shield regen after you barely make a scratch in it which is hardly visible unless oyu have a rapid firing weapon to see it constantly barely blipping as if their shields have constant regen at a super high rate.

[The Govanator]

Maybe Trion can create a hack software that infects peoples computers when they download it.

It could pull peoples personal information then post it live during live streams.

That would be great. I would watch that for the laughs and people like, "How did they get my picture? Is that my bank account number? Who just hacked me! Grrrrrrr"

sweet justice imo.

that's what anon is for

[Zewks]

Using hex editors is above a lot of peoples ability, but if 12 year olds can do it, not that hard....

Except there are plenty of dumbed down "my mom can use this" GUI front ends for hex editors, or cheat engines, that allow you to simply select the game you want to cheat in, and a checkbox list of values you want to change:
IE:
- Defiance (check)
---- Uber weapon damage (check)
----- Super shield regen (check)
----- 10x vehicle speed (check)

and so on. The "you have to be the guy who created DOS in order to know how to do it" safety net, doesnt actually hold any truth.

[The Govanator]

Someone early on mentioned something that should have been implemented when they put stats client side..... maybe it can still be put in at this stage..... If you have this stuff client side, the server should be able to check to see if something exceeds a maximum value. It may take a few microseconds more to so, but still....

Something like: if damage(shotgun)> 1000 then bootthemofo (anyone recognize the nod to BASIC there)? Obviously you'd need to know the maximum that could occur with variables such as overpower and hitting the sweet spots, etc.... but it would be a safety net of sorts......

Using hex editors is above a lot of peoples ability, but if 12 year olds can do it, not that hard....

all they need to is check if certain files have been altered when the launcher is fired up, and after patching, and as people log into characters. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MD5 this is totally possible, the tiniest alteration and it reads as a modified and different file. it should be VERY EASY for them to identify modified files clientside, they only need an efficient system in place that checks for the changes at the right times to where people cannot replace them during gameplay to bypass the checks and to where the checks do not interrupt gameplay in any signifigant way. it CAN be done, and SHOULD be done, or else the word class action can usually be motivating. if people have the balls to actually do it.

[Zewks]

all they need to is check if certain files have been altered when the launcher is fired up, and after patching, and as people log into characters. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MD5 this is totally possible, the tiniest alteration and it reads as a modified and different file. it should be VERY EASY for them to identify modified files clientside, they only need an efficient system in place that checks for the changes at the right times to where people cannot replace them during gameplay to bypass the checks and to where the checks do not interrupt gameplay in any signifigant way. it CAN be done, and SHOULD be done, or else the word class action can usually be motivating. if people have the balls to actually do it.

Nope. Many cheat engines out there edit the values of these things in MEMORY, which means even after the program checks to see if these files have been altered.

Simply put, client side is a HUGE gaping hole when it comes to security against cheating and hacking.

[ten4]

Using hex editors is above a lot of peoples ability, but if 12 year olds can do it, not that hard....

Yep, there's even video guides so even the totally inept can understand how to do it.

Trion dun goofed big time and there is no way they will stop it I guess hence why they don't say/do anything about this issue nor reply to hacker report tickets?

"We are behing you, watching" they said as a warning.

Haha, that comment made me laugh. If that's case, why is the same cheater running around for over two weeks then?

[CosmicDebri]

I remember this is why Punkbuster came into existence so long ago for many fps games...... to do a checksum on files, etc. Not sure if it looks at memory tho.....

[Kharnamatic]

I'm sorry, but I can't muster any outrage. As they say "all is fair in love and war." True PvPers should and do seek any advantage they can to win. This can be through ingame means, by adopting FOTM OP builds, or otherwise. This is how real life works. The real world is a kill or be killed sort of place. Soldiers, politicians, businessmen, athletes don't stay alive or become successful because they played fair. They used everything in their power to beat the other guy into a pulp. Even that white knight Tour de France-winning cyclist Lance "I work for cancer charities" Armstrong was a lifelong cheater. Sure, in the real world, businessmen/politicians/athletes are less blatant about "cheating" (and youtubing the evidence for bragging rights) but that's because the penalty for doing so in real-life is a lot more harsh. After all what can Trion do to someone who gets caught cheating? Ban them? Cool, so the cheater can just buy another copy for $30 or hack someone's account and run around one-shotting people again.

Fighting cheaters is a losing proposition. The worst penalty Trion can hand out (permaban) doesn't deter any real cheater. Trion should just let things slide and make hacks freely available. I certainly think hacks would make PvE a lot better - I could farm keycodes much easier and get full legendaries.

In fact, cracking down hard on cheaters can lead to worse results. I know in GW2 (Guild Wars 2) they have strict anti-cheating policies, so the pro players mass hack gamers' accounts to take all their gold. They then use that gold to keep a permanent set of top tier consumables up on their characters, giving them a huge advantage in PvP. Half of my friends quit GW2 because they had their accounts hacked. Is this what you want to happen to Defiance? People nicking your accounts, characters and credit card info just because you got into an uproar over a PvP youtube video and Trion recoded their game to prevent hacks (btw PvErs can just ignore PvP and not come into contact with these PvPers).

[Zzyn]

Hey guys, dont be so harsh on Trion for this. The multiplayer game genre has only been around for a couple of months, max, so its not like anyone knew something like this would happen. This is also trions first multiplayer game.

Um... What? This kind of game has been around for many years. Planetside 1, anyone?

And this is not Trion's first game. Rift has been out a long time, and has a rather positive level of quality, even if the overall story and such bored the crud out of me.

Im sure they will patch it, and we can count on their 2nd online game not having these issues. I almost with cheaters had been around in the gaming world for years, because at least then, developers would have a lot more experience in knowing how to code ways to fight against hacking and cheating. Oh well, guess in a couple more years, when there are more than 2 online games on the market, and cheating has finally made its way to consoles, we will see a much more robust system against it.

/fingerscrosssed

:P

More than two online games on the market? I'm truly confused as to what you are talking about. There are so many online games on the market it's hard not to trip over them.

There is no excuse for not having server side checks for max damage, etc. Checks that not only prevent the dmg amount sent, but also set off an alarm to the GM staff to check that person out ASAP. This is all pretty straitforward to do. I'm amazed it didn't happen before release, but look forward to Trion tightening it up as they go along.

I'm sure they have logs of damage done by who, when, against what mob, etc. They will be caught and banned. I will enjoy their tears, the cheaters.

[Lisa]

Um... What? This kind of game has been around for many years. Planetside 1, anyone?

And this is not Trion's first game. Rift has been out a long time, and has a rather positive level of quality, even if the overall story and such bored the crud out of me.



More than two online games on the market? I'm truly confused as to what you are talking about. There are so many online games on the market it's hard not to trip over them.

There is no excuse for not having server side checks for max damage, etc. Checks that not only prevent the dmg amount sent, but also set off an alarm to the GM staff to check that person out ASAP. This is all pretty straitforward to do. I'm amazed it didn't happen before release, but look forward to Trion tightening it up as they go along.

I'm sure they have logs of damage done by who, when, against what mob, etc. They will be caught and banned. I will enjoy their tears, the cheaters.

Sarcasm FTW.