Defiance is the game we deserve, but not the one we need right now..

[zyloolyz]

No. What I mean by that is as we're nearing a month after launch, what Trion has to say no longer really matters. They either deliver on promises they shoved into that empty box I paid $60 for ($10 more than their previous release), or they deserve the backlash they've gotten and will continue to get.

We've already determined Trion doesn't need 6 months to make their game work without player data corruption and disappearing items. We've also determined Defiance isn't a game with the same stability, communication, scope, or quality of the game that made their studio's reputation.

That doesn't mean we should accept Trion's downhill trajectory, and it doesn't mean we should accept the drop in quality between their releases.

The way you talk about Trions reputation is as if they have released count less games that were flawless, You have to remember even as awesome as they are, Trion Worlds was founded in 2006 and only really has one big game under there belt "Rift" besides Defiance. BTW Rifts launch the first week or so was a disaster just like wow EQ etc. Even the Almighty Blizzard with years of experience at making games "money" flopped with D3 not to mention the launch of WoW.

So it's not about how big you are or how much experience you have making games. The true question is, is this game fun and dose it have potential. When it all boils down to it I see so much more potential in this game then all others that are out atm.

[Digital Soulja]

I like this game as much as anyone and just as much as OP is upset about all the negative post's I'm upset over all of the praise some people are giving Trion for "trying something new" or all of the "hey, it's an mmo and all mmo's have crappy launches, give it time". Trying something new is admirable sure but charging money for something new that's broken straight out of the box isn't. And it's 2013 not 1998, mmo's have been around long enough and technology has evolved enough that mmo developers should be releasing working products. A few early launch bugs and server lag I can understand but having fundamental game mechanics that are bugged, like disappearing gear, or just plain don't work *cough* chat *cough* I find inexcusable. And then when they do finally get around to fixing the bugs they also decide to "fix" stuff that no one needed or wanted fixed. I'm talking about removing any tangible reward for doing emergencies, which considering the fairly light amount of actual story based content is pretty much one of the only things a player can do post story? But since the patch I can spend a good amount of time completing an emergency and walk away with nothing but a few scrip and whatever loot the mobs drop. And I can't help but think that this "fix" isn't somehow tied to the in game cash store. Blame EA for me thinking that way.
TL;DR: if we don't hold game developers to a higher standard then they're just going to keep releasing extremely broken content and rely on post release patched to fix it. Coddling them because they "tried, and that's good enough" is fine with children but not with companies who charge me $60 for their broken product.

Yeah I agree with what your saying there, there isn't really any excuse for so many broken elements a month after release. I think though what I meant to say was that I'm seeing so many more posts focusing on the negative and so few on the positive. Stick up for Trion and I'm "Another Whiny Thread About Whiny Threads", call them out on it and I'm a troll. No one here can win just like Trion can't win.

I just feel like the devs will be coming on here and seeing nothing but negativity about their baby and think why bother. We want them to bother. Just calling for more balance I think. You must be happy with most of what this game has to offer otherwise why the hell would you still be playing it?

Edit: having a slight pop at all of us there btw, not the guy I'm quoting above.

[Candlebox]

The way you talk about Trions reputation is as if they have released count less games that were flawless, You have to remember even as awesome as they are, Trion Worlds was founded in 2006 and only really has one big game under there belt "Rift" besides Defiance. BTW Rifts launch the first week or so was a disaster just like wow EQ etc. Even the Almighty Blizzard with years of experience at making games "money" flopped with D3 not to mention the launch of WoW.

So it's not about how big you are or how much experience you have making games. The true question is, is this game fun and dose it have potential. When it all boils down to it I see so much more potential in this game then all others that are out atm.

Rift had one of the smoothest launches i have played, i dont know were your getting this disaster crap, defiance launch was a disaster, not Rift lol, you probably didnt even play it at launch, and are just repeating things you heard, like most mouth breathers on these forums do.

[zyloolyz]

Yeah I agree with what your saying there, there isn't really any excuse for so many broken elements a month after release. I think though what I meant to say was that I'm seeing so many more posts focusing on the negative and so few on the positive. Stick up for Trion and I'm "Another Whiny Thread About Whiny Threads", call them out on it and I'm a troll. No one here can win just like Trion can't win.


I just feel like the devs will be coming on here and seeing nothing but negativity about their baby and think why bother. We want them to bother. Just calling for more balance I think. You must be happy with most of what this game has to offer otherwise why the hell would you still be playing it?

Dude in the end it's just about people complaining, I guess we have to just accept the fact that people love to ***** and moan. It's life. I wish people could be more easygoing the life they lead would so much easier.

[Schwa]

The way you talk about Trions reputation is as if they have released count less games that were flawless, You have to remember even as awesome as they are, Trion Worlds was founded in 2006 and only really has one big game under there belt "Rift" besides Defiance. BTW Rifts launch the first week or so was a disaster just like wow EQ etc.

Negative. I talk about Trion's reputation, and I once held it in such esteem because they managed to do the impossible: launch a solid MMO with the typical MMO hiccups at an incidental level if anything. The instant headstart began, the servers were open. The servers did not crash, the character data was not corrupted randomly (as in Defiance) and players were not losing items. The game had a variety of content from day one, up to and including expert instances. Greenscale was launched in a minor patch a few weeks later, along with 10-man raid rifts in the first month's patch.

There were issues with server queues because more people than expected were trying to log in. That's a good problem to have, and one that was resolved quickly and efficiently with new servers.

There were issues with position-shifting hackers, but that was resolved quickly and with full communication from Trion.

There was a larger issue a few weeks after launch that allowed a hacker to bypass the login system, but that was settled with full communication from Trion and a creative solution that worked even if they were unable to pinpoint the issue. Within a week.

Goldspamming issues on chat were solved by a creative user-report system that was simple as right-clicking a name. Again, quickly.

In contrast, Defiance has been running with disappearing items since launch day and three weeks (going on four) later that hasn't been nailed down. We still have weak social systems (including chat) and an interface that can't tell me if I just got a rifle magazine mod or a sniper rifle magazine mod without digging through sixteen menus (hint: it needs to be an icon). The same with the lack of challenging co-op content, along with challenging solo content, along with servers needing nightly restarts.

While it seems like the games were made on two different budgets, it's not unfair to expect a higher standard from a company that did things so right their first time on the market. I may not expect x expert instances from Defiance, and I absolutely love the flat item progression, but it isn't unreasonable to expect something that requires a little bit of communication, planning, and tactics in the box. Even if one of the existing instances were retooled or rescaled with new pursuits, that would've been enough.

I don't mind the lack of raiding, as throwing more people at content doesn't always make it more challenging. Many times, it does the exact opposite: see Raid Rifts in Rift.

They built this entire, beautiful game with a focus on personal skill progression rather than bigger and bigger numbers. Then they failed to finish their design (in the box, again-- Trion) with something that bookended that design (Dark Matter is an intermediate level of difficulty at best) to hold us over to the next update. With Rift, this was the expert dungeons. The game, as it is, is incomplete-- as far as an MMO can be incomplete.

We were led to believe the game and the TV series could both stand on their own. We weren't just led to believe that, we were told that. The game, as it is, is reliant on the TV series for the "punchline" of its design. In other words, it cannot stand on its own.

[zyloolyz]

Rift had one of the smoothest launches i have played, i dont know were your getting this disaster crap, defiance launch was a disaster, not Rift lol, you probably didnt even play it at launch, and are just repeating things you heard, like most mouth breathers on these forums do.

Smooth? The game play was great if you got in, Have your already forgotten about waiting in que for hours to get into a overly populated server?

[Candlebox]

Smooth? The game play was great if you got in, Have your already forgotten about waiting in que for hours to get into a overly populated server?

Having a que, is not the same as having gear disapering,hacking, lag, countless bugs, and all the other things wrong with defiance, i can handle waiting in a que for a while, but this other crap is unaceptable.

[Digital Soulja]

I think I've forgotten what point I was originally trying to make, heh. And it's not like me saying 'cut them some slack, they're trying' is going to change anything on here.

I think what I was originally trying to say is this: the mechanics are solid, the game has HUGE potential even if its a little broken right now. I have faith that Defiance will (sooner or later, hopefully sooner) Defiance will be the game we all want, and deserve! B***h and moan too much and they just might take away our toys.

I do hope they don't take too damn long about it though..

..and hurry up and fix my damn critical error so I can start playing again and stop making dumb posts on here. :-)

[zyloolyz]

I like this game as much as anyone and just as much as OP is upset about all the negative post's I'm upset over all of the praise some people are giving Trion for "trying something new" or all of the "hey, it's an mmo and all mmo's have crappy launches, give it time". Trying something new is admirable sure but charging money for something new that's broken straight out of the box isn't. And it's 2013 not 1998, mmo's have been around long enough and technology has evolved enough that mmo developers should be releasing working products. A few early launch bugs and server lag I can understand but having fundamental game mechanics that are bugged, like disappearing gear, or just plain don't work *cough* chat *cough* I find inexcusable. And then when they do finally get around to fixing the bugs they also decide to "fix" stuff that no one needed or wanted fixed. I'm talking about removing any tangible reward for doing emergencies, which considering the fairly light amount of actual story based content is pretty much one of the only things a player can do post story? But since the patch I can spend a good amount of time completing an emergency and walk away with nothing but a few scrip and whatever loot the mobs drop. And I can't help but think that this "fix" isn't somehow tied to the in game cash store. Blame EA for me thinking that way.
TL;DR: if we don't hold game developers to a higher standard then they're just going to keep releasing extremely broken content and rely on post release patched to fix it. Coddling them because they "tried, and that's good enough" is fine with children but not with companies who charge me $60 for their broken product.

Hey Jeff sorry to brake it to you dude but almost any game you buy now days is going to cost you $60 and more then likely you will Finnish it in less the 8 hours. Trying something new right out of the box as it goes for MMORPGS it is expected for the first month to be hell. If you are not used to that then you are new to MMORPGS its just the way it is. Are you a avid gamer? how many games have you bought that you finished in 8 or less hours? if you think about it I bet its alot. Even if you are so pissed off at this game atm that you can't stand it, I bet you have played it more then other games you bought for $60.

[zyloolyz]

I think I've forgotten what point I was originally trying to make, heh. And it's not like me saying 'cut them some slack, they're trying' is going to change anything on here.

I think what I was originally trying to say is this: the mechanics are solid, the game has HUGE potential even if its a little broken right now. I have faith that Defiance will (sooner or later, hopefully sooner) Defiance will be the game we all want, and deserve! B***h and moan too much and they just might take away our toys.

I do hope they don't take too damn long about it though..

..and hurry up and fix my damn critical error so I can start playing again and stop making dumb posts on here. :-)

Dude! I was lost as well for a moment lol, Brother I feel the same.