This isn't WoW, but character Roles shouldn't be limited either (Wall of Text)

[ChaosOneX]

Our group currently uses aggro (with and without decoy) to our advantage all the time. Granted, you want to spread the enemies' attention out which is the exact opposite of what most mmorpg players are comfortable with. As for BMGs, we rarely use them outside of grenadiers, hulkers, and such but it's not uncommon to see the current aggro target get some healing love if he/she dodges wrong. The roles in this game exist if you want them to but you don't need them to play the game. To use WoW as an example, you can run every quest/kill most every rare in the game as any role, but it's far easier as dps typically.

Now, as for adding some depth to boss fights inside Co-op matches, there is some definite areas that could be expanded. Bosses having abilities like an AoE type attack that does moderate damage per second thus forcing use of BMGs would be something. Or perhaps a hard hitting cone attack that would encourage the use of decoy. Perhaps a turreted gauntlet that would encourage Cloak or Blur. Basically, you don't need to change the system to encourage people to fill roles.

You're putting to much work into the instance. I mean, its great that you and your friends have teamwork, but you can run a co op map just as easy with four assault rifles. I can solo two grenadiers with a northstar, which in my mind is somewhat of a problem.

[ChaosOneX]

shameless bump

[datalore]

i heard to interview of the gaming staff and they didn't want this to be like all other mmorpg's but they also said there was 14 pvp maps several capture and hold maps etc so I'm sure IF they had 14+pvp maps capture n hold maps most people wouldn't be so bored right now.
All the good mmo's have a team based part this doesn't the co-op maps are just a solo map that you play with 3 other people no need to type because its point n shoot no tactics needed.
They need to make roles as roles make a team effort 4 people point n shooting is not effort ...no need to heal coz if you die its ok.
One reason why roles are important is to make people talk they should sort there chat system out first but after they need to look at some sort of role being needed

[davjones]

While Defiance is a shooter first, it comes across as being only that. Co Op maps need more depth, characters need more depth, and while these are typically more RPG aspects, they can be melded into a shooter centric game.

Let us start with the BMG, while it's cool that it heals, using it gives one the feeling of sacrificing dps in a co op map, and with how co op instances work right now, that actually hurts the group more than it adds. Choosing to heal should offer the group a benefit of some sort, and currently, a group can run through an instance faster without a BMG user than with.

"Well Chaos, what should they do to make BMGs more useful?"

This requires a two fold approach, one is a reworking of the enemy. The enemy needs more health and damage, this makes them more of a threat. The second is a reworking of a BMG. Even if the BMG loses its ability to heal the user, it needs to have its healing rate increased. There also needs to be more variety in BMG aspects, for instance, a target healed by a BMG could gain 15%damage resistance towards attacks from the front.

This ties into the second part about character roles. Aggro.

Ever play a group focused game and you got to play the part of diversion? Well, Defiance needs a second look at its aggro system. LMGs, RLs, and Shotguns all need to have higher aggro rates than other guns. Why? So the enemy can focus on them while the other characters pick them off. Having someone draw aggro has been a staple of multiplayer games for ages, and its a tactic that would lend some more depth to Defiance.

Even a small change like this could drastically change the amount of depth to the game, as it forces players to consider things other than pure damage per shot, and damage per second.

"What about Sniper Rifles?"

Glad you asked. Snipers need to have a higher crit rate, for a skill weapon, and a component of the gun that is based off skill, why is the multiplier so low? It doesn't really make sense for pvp or pve.

Say Trion agrees with me so far, and enemies become more resilient, snipers need to be able to do their job. an increased crit rate would allow them to do that.

"But if an LMG has all the aggro, then won't it be too easy to pick off enemies?"

No. A sniper rifle should have insane aggro per shot, but that aggro is limited in range compared to what an LMG could produce. A small group of enemies will focus on a sniper if one of their number is sniped, but with constant suppression from an LMG, or a shotgunner running through their ranks, they should try to spread out, some focusing on the sniper, some on the other threat.

"But I thought Decoy was the Aggro replacement!"

Decoy wouldn't change, but it shouldn't get all enemies in an entire area to suddenly focus on it. If you continue to spray and pray with an LMG, enemies would stop focusing on the decoy. This would mean that team members would have to communicate more.

"What's the point of grabbing aggro if I can't take more than ten shots as it is now?"

Well, shields need a revamp. Need some that reduce damage from the front, or have a high cap, with a super long refresh rate. This allows a BMG to actually aid a person serving as cannon fodder, and has a trade off for solo play. Some shields could lower player speed in exchange for more capacity and a faster recharge.



I'm going to end this here so I can judge how people react to the thought process so far, but I have a bit more in mind. Please leave a comment.

I have a beef with the idea of aggro in a shooter. I don't want this to turn into a tank holds it and the dps hits it. But the concept of if I shoot him he will take notice of me and shoot back still holds up. This does not need to become an aggro based game. I personally hate the robotic nature of aggro based games

The gun fight mechanics need to be able to hold up. Flank, Hide, Return fire, Move to new cover, Suppressing Fire. they need to apply to both sides npcs do all the above to people, and vice versa. The same should apply to pvp even though the pvp is more of a matrix shooter.

[ChaosOneX]

I have a beef with the idea of aggro in a shooter. I don't want this to turn into a tank holds it and the dps hits it. But the concept of if I shoot him he will take notice of me and shoot back still holds up. This does not need to become an aggro based game. I personally hate the robotic nature of aggro based games

The gun fight mechanics need to be able to hold up. Flank, Hide, Return fire, Move to new cover, Suppressing Fire. they need to apply to both sides npcs do all the above to people, and vice versa. The same should apply to pvp even though the pvp is more of a matrix shooter.

hmmm... think more army of two, less WoW when I say aggro. Essentially, its a change in how the AI views a character's threat. What I suggest is more reaction to certain actions, such as sniping or blowing away opponents with a shotgun.

But in real life, guns like a SAW are scary, and tend to be the first priority. Why shouldn't the enemy in game mimic that?

[Genisis__]

Referring to my previous thread http://forums.defiance.com/showthrea...ers-add-please!!!)

I believe that the instances would also bring a more in-depth aspect to the game. Yes this isn't WoW but its a MMO nevertheless. This game as all the classic and abilities a normal MMO has with a shooting aspect.

[ChaosOneX]

Referring to my previous thread http://forums.defiance.com/showthrea...ers-add-please!!!)

I believe that the instances would also bring a more in-depth aspect to the game. Yes this isn't WoW but its a MMO nevertheless. This game as all the classic and abilities a normal MMO has with a shooting aspect.

It needs to start at a deeper level than just new instances though. Read through that wall of text at the front of the thread and then tell me what you think.

[Genisis__]

Oh i did bro, i agree with you 100% my idea to the instances was to give a more in-depth aspect to the show. The character classes are a bit of a joke too, they dont really do anything but just give people starting weapons from what i saw and a certain outfit. I originally picked survivalist because i like to snipe and be stealthy, but then i realized i can level up all my weapon skills.

I understand the aggro idea- its a great concept, even in MMO such as Final Fantasy and AION the healers tend to get aggro easier which is the cause for tanks to deal high damage to grab the aggro. Its no doubt this game needs a bit of work but im sure it will get better, the developers have been on the ball with the updates lately, i been highly impressed.

[ChaosOneX]

figured I'd bump this

[K1LLSVV1TCH]

Can you even fail a coop at this point? I've never seen it happen... The only times I've not cleared them is when they bug out or the server crashes.