Was the Beta Test wasted?

[Shogo_Yahagi]

Since they've never developed a console game before, and especially since the PC version inherits the poorly designed console UI, I would have run console betas in parallel with the PC betas. The console beta program was a disgrace. Given the size of their budget, they could afford the investment in improving the quality of the game. Some of their worst reviews were from people reviewing the Xbox version, which received the least and latest beta testing. I bet those bad reviews cost them more than a real beta testing program would have.

I would have made my developers play console games in their off time until they understand the basic expectations any console gamer will have. The PC gamers seem to think that this is gem of a console game, but they are wrong. They just got so many basic things wrong that actual user feedback could have helped them avoid. To pick just one small example, that clunky mess of a start-up sequence would not have passed muster on a PS2 game. I literally do not own another Playstation game (PS2 or PS3) that makes you accept the terms and conditions every time you start the game. T&C goes on the download, not the start-up. Every other PS developer gets that. To pick another example, there are basic features like mass sell and scrap that should have been in the game from the start; other console games manage this with no problem. If they had fixed it for the consoles, they would have fixed it for everyone.

Knowing that the console players are beta testing an old build, I would have communicated with them. If they are reporting problems that are no longer problems in the newer build, let them know. They are donating their time to make your product better. Don't waste it. Have a stickied thread providing a list of things that beta testers no longer need to report. Instead, Trion didn't even give PS3 players access to the beta forums, which meant every thread trying to discuss the beta had to deal with brown nosing forum deputies trying to score points with Trion by telling us not to discuss the beta in the forum we had been told to discuss it in, and the CMs didn't do a damn thing to stop it. The whole process really gave the impression that Trion did not care about the console beta.

At the very least, at the end of the beta, I would have given the community a list of what issues they had identified that are now on the roadmap for the first patch, and given them some idea of the general priority levels for the ones that didn't make the cut for the launch-day patch. Obviously, once launch hits, new things will come up, but at the very least, the people providing you feedback deserve some feedback too.

[Fus10n75]

You asked what would i have done in their place?

If i was the one creating the game i'd have never gotten anywhere near the Alpha stage let alone a working beta So glad trion stuck with it.

Now, as to shipping it out in the state it was, its no different to how Microsoft ships out most of their Operating systems. I also feel that you can beta test something and not find anything. Its only when you add the unpredicable human element into mix by playing the live game can the harder to find bugs be noticed. I also feel that if the world was to iron out all the bugs in everything it created, before releasing for retail, we'd probably still be cavemen trying to invent the the perfect wheel!

I say, mark a line in the sand and move on. Forget the bugs that made you angry and maybe report new ones in a constructive, helpful way.

There's plenty of other things to moan about in life than a mmo and life's too short imo

[Rasczak]

Hmm... My Beta chars didn't carry into Live. I had to start over. I was in a hurry to get into Live so I could grab my Main name. I quickly made Mac Death on both EU and NA. I play on PC but I'd be shocked to learn that ANY platform allowed the Beta chars to carry over to Live.

Though not Defiance, when LoTRO ran its open beta just prior to launch, all the Open Beta characters were kept. So, if you bought the game and used the same account info-- there you were.

Not only did I enjoy that, but so did all the gold farmers.

[MacDeath]

Since they've never developed a console game before, and especially since the PC version inherits the poorly designed console UI, I would have run console betas in parallel with the PC betas. The console beta program was a disgrace. Given the size of their budget, they could afford the investment in improving the quality of the game. Some of their worst reviews were from people reviewing the Xbox version, which received the least and latest beta testing. I bet those bad reviews cost them more than a real beta testing program would have.

I would have made my developers play console games in their off time until they understand the basic expectations any console gamer will have. The PC gamers seem to think that this is gem of a console game, but they are wrong. They just got so many basic things wrong that actual user feedback could have helped them avoid. To pick just one small example, that clunky mess of a start-up sequence would not have passed muster on a PS2 game. I literally do not own another Playstation game (PS2 or PS3) that makes you accept the terms and conditions every time you start the game. T&C goes on the download, not the start-up. Every other PS developer gets that. To pick another example, there are basic features like mass sell and scrap that should have been in the game from the start; other console games manage this with no problem. If they had fixed it for the consoles, they would have fixed it for everyone.

Knowing that the console players are beta testing an old build, I would have communicated with them. If they are reporting problems that are no longer problems in the newer build, let them know. They are donating their time to make your product better. Don't waste it. Have a stickied thread providing a list of things that beta testers no longer need to report. Instead, Trion didn't even give PS3 players access to the beta forums, which meant every thread trying to discuss the beta had to deal with brown nosing forum deputies trying to score points with Trion by telling us not to discuss the beta in the forum we had been told to discuss it in, and the CMs didn't do a damn thing to stop it. The whole process really gave the impression that Trion did not care about the console beta.

At the very least, at the end of the beta, I would have given the community a list of what issues they had identified that are now on the roadmap for the first patch, and given them some idea of the general priority levels for the ones that didn't make the cut for the launch-day patch. Obviously, once launch hits, new things will come up, but at the very least, the people providing you feedback deserve some feedback too.

There is a reason the console betas never got a beta forum to report bugs in. The console betas were part of Beta 3. For Beta 3 the NDA was lifted for ALL platforms. Trion wanted all of us to report bugs on the main forums. So, the beta forums weren't something that was ment for the PC players (after Beta 2). Your other points are good, IMO.

[MacDeath]

Though not Defiance, when LoTRO ran its open beta just prior to launch, all the Open Beta characters were kept. So, if you bought the game and used the same account info-- there you were.

Not only did I enjoy that, but so did all the gold farmers.

Rift had an Early Access (Head Start) program. For a fee, players could get a 3 day EA/HS prior to the 'official' launch. EA/HS characters didn't have to start over at launch. The EA/HS was just after the last beta (Beta 7). There was no carry over from Beta to EA/HS or to launch, however. I played in Alpha, ALL 7 betas and had EA/HS. I was VERY ready for the launch. So was Trion all that testing was a good thing.

[Clarkeh]

Ultimately Trion would have saved alot of face if there were a bit more Transparent in the ways of information and properly communicating with the playerbase if on Day 1 THEY made a massive post on the frontpage of thier Defiance website and forums and made the information extremely easy to find detailing exactly what is not working in the game to thier standard and detailed to the consumers which is us the chances of extended downtime due to critical bugs then the playerbase might be a bit more leniant and apologetic towards Trion but instead Trion seems to be wheeling out band-aid community posts promising Defiance will become better but its exactly that promises.

In this day and age now development teams need to start taking down the wall of secrecy and invite the playerbase to the table and start getting them involved. For example this personally i don't care about but for many people PvP maps are driving players crazy they bring them back in thier bugged they take them out and they bring them back in still bugged, instead of doing that they should just put thier hands up and say look we screwed up people we will get these maps to you in a few months, this gives the development team x amount of months to get that stuff fixed and consumer ready instead we have thread and threads of whinging posts, and instead of Trion engaging on a thread to thread level (i would be happy with a big arse sticky) telling the players what the deal is.

The first thing we the players should have seen is thier roadmap when it was created and thier priority on whats being fixed/addressed/balanced/added because right now Trion is not making that roadmap viewable to the general public which takes us back to the transparency issue, if Trion wants loyalty and trust and generally a passiveish playerbase then they need to start addressing WHY they have pissed off players, yea fair enough some of them are trolls which game forum doesn't have them? Most of them though are valid complaints and the longer those complaints are ignored or not addressed the more trolls are created.

Trion has already missed the boat now on the transparency tactic even if they did show thier roadmap and started engaging with the community because the "Hate" is already there and each issue thats created via patches just keeps stacking onto that "Hate"

Probably the only thing that really bothers me about this game is the cheek Trion shipped a console ported MMO-esque game to the PC Genre thinking we had the IQ of a penguin and not notice the clunky UI and now i know they have promised (theres that word again) they would address this issue but this issue isn't going to be fixed in one patch its going to take months maybe even a year to fix this mess for PC users.

[ten4]

I'm disappointed that none of the replys so far answered my questions: What decision would YOU have made if you were in charge? What would have caused you to make that decision?

Held off release for at least 3 months, maybe more like 6. Reason? This game is hyper buggy and there's just enough 'content' to last a few days before it starts getting hyper repetitious. It's not like it would matter about TV tie in since they really have nothing to do with each other except a bit of 'lore'. All this talk about ground breaking cross media revolution is a crock.

[Rasczak]

Rift had an Early Access (Head Start) program. For a fee, players could get a 3 day EA/HS prior to the 'official' launch. EA/HS characters didn't have to start over at launch. The EA/HS was just after the last beta (Beta 7). There was no carry over from Beta to EA/HS or to launch, however. I played in Alpha, ALL 7 betas and had EA/HS. I was VERY ready for the launch. So was Trion all that testing was a good thing.

I know about Headstarts, I've been in a few of them, including SWTOR. They're different than actual open beta characters being kept. SWTOR did open beta weekends and didn't keep the characters. However, Turbine did with Lord of the Rings Online.

[baelrusk]

Extremely true Clarkeh.
Bad enough that it seems like they still don't see a problem with this way of doing things.

Has there been any kind of response yet over bugs from them in the past few days?
In the regular forums I don't think I've seen the usual "We are aware of the problem" or the "We are working on it" since the day after the patch removal. I've seen the generic message with closing threads though.

[shadowkin]

I would have put into the contract or whatever with syfy that they can't air the show till the game is complete. i dunno i get the feeling trion is trying to kick dirt under the rug. The across the badlands stream makes me feel awkward when i watch it, bc they go on and on about how GREAT the game is and OMG if u don't play you'll never understand the show.

I feel awkward watching it bc they are so blatantly "try harding" to make the game seem amazing. I dunno i guess another part of the awkwardness is that it feels artificial. well... It is lol. It doesn't have that cool "we're all just hanging out" vibe that streams usually have. It is a huge and pbvious marketing attempt, which is fine.. market your product's main point which is the show tie in, but seriously it is overdone and tryharded beyond belief. Even the smiles seem fake. Only real smile i have seen was when the controller vibrated on the table and the young lady thought the young lad had farted (being polite bc i dunno their names).

Like one time they told us to meet at demon run and we all raced each other. THAT WAS COOL MAN, REALLY COOL! that had the community feel. But the rest was WOW THIS GAME IS SO GOOD I AM OOZING OUT OF MY PENOR, when i know deep down the game is shtako and i have a niche or games like this, and it is just the only game out at the moment like this, as apb's open world is so limited. This game could be so sickkkkk i hope it matures well