The Illusion of Progression: A Novella

[BJWyler]

This is an issue with AI programming, not with progression design. This issue has existed for a couple decades, and I have yet to see any developers coming out with an answer. And it needs a real answer, not a false-progression distracting you from it. If you have an idea of a possible fix, please do speak up. You could make a lot of money if you could make an AI that poses a real challenge to players.

Actually it has been done in test environments, but then the actual problem is brought to light in that case - that the AI ends up being better than any human could be in reality and thus the OP of the AI scales up exponentially with the the "smartness" of said AI, essentially making it unbeatable.

[Ark Baby]

You are not alone!

In terms of your original post (very well said I must say!), the mechanics of this game are not very well explained from what I can see. Most of what I have learned has been from other posts or player YouTubes, which seems to be the trend in gaming nowadays, but I am from the old school where our games came with a manual that explained the basic concepts. There is some familiarity for those who have experienced GW2 (I played the betas and was not overly impressed - but that's an OT discussion for another day). But even with that, I am still in the habit of wanting my new blue or purple Sniper Rifle drop to show some better stats than the white and green I have been using up to this point. Partially that is from my traditional MMO habits and "training" but also from Trion who created the color distinctions themselves. I like the system, but I think it could use some tweaking and benefit from a better tutorial.

Same here:-)

I'm still stumbling on things I didn't know you could do. Just the other day I realized I could GREATLY simplify the process of breaking down new guns by arranging them from highest level to lowest, rather than by type. Boom, all my newest pickups were right there at the top, in a nice little line, ready for salvage conversion.

For those of you saying, "Oh my god, really?! It took you THAT long to figure that out?!?" all I can do is shake my head and say, "I know, right?"

Also, I agree with you and Ice_Tempest that weapons could use a little tweaking, even something as simple as a few extra rounds per clip in purple and orange weapons. Even so, I'm still having fun leveling different weapon types, so it's a very minor nitpick for me.

[Myria]

We were a smaller, casual guild. Just didn't have the bodies for a 25-man. But if you really need scale, before I left, we were getting three of four special chests in Zul'Aman on a regular basis, and had recently put the whole map on farm status.

Ah. So you didn't do any of the content that was meant to be difficult -- something ZA most assuredly was not, even at release -- but feel you can claim with certitude that "WoW never added harder content.".

Unsurprisingly this article well applies.

[boosted gear]

I think the OP has made some goods points this is pretty much how I see the game since I started playing I can see the difference those little stat increases make and it is rewarding when you earn them. Its just a more realistic way of showing progression. I did love my insane dps on borderlands though I was like waaahhhhhh look at that long number its just nice to see another approach.

[BJWyler]

People that blast through content will blast through content regardless. Games shouldn't be about getting through some annoying task to get a reward. They should be about having fun playing and any rewards should be bonus.

The downside to this is that it cuts content out of the game. Once you level past it, it becomes trivial. There's no challenge or useful rewards going back to the stuff you've passed, which is what a lot of people are already complaining about with this game. People will still get to the end and complain there isn't enough to do.

Indeed this. Artificially gating content which has been SOP primarily in the RPG genre doesn't work as well when taking that into the MMO realm. No MMO can ever make enough content to satisfy players, otherwise it would end up being Vaporware. Players are going to blast through content no matter what barriers are put up. And in this day an age, making a "level" barrier only promotes grinding which is becoming less and less desirable by the gaming community (I grew up in the original CRPG age when grind really was grind and as much as I enjoy going back to those games every now and again certainly do not want to see a general return to that age). One of the enjoyable things I have found with Defiance is that I can go to any zone in this game and still have the content feel relevant - i.e. I can drive to SF and not have to worry about getting pwned by mobs and go back to Mount Tam for ArkFalls and not be put to sleep because I have "outleveled" the area.

[Grimwyrd]

Ark Baby... I've been ignoring this post because I didn't think I could stand ANOTHER post complaining about the lack of progression in Defiance. When I saw this thread reach so many pages of comments, I finally read it. Great post!

[Chemikz]

Well put OP, totally agree.

Fancy seeing Schwa and WhiteCell in here!

What.A.Surprise.

Who's to say this progression system hasn't been 'sold' to the playerbase Schwa? You always speak your opinions as if fact and that everyone believes. "They failed to sell it to us." "It is too easy." etc. I entirely disagree with you, otherwise there'd clearly be empty servers over a month into the game and I've just got out of an Arkfall so large my Xbox360 had a stroke.

[Racheakt]

Ark Baby... I've been ignoring this post because I didn't think I could stand ANOTHER post complaining about the lack of progression in Defiance. When I saw this thread reach so many pages of comments, I finally read it. Great post!

I think the title is what has kept this thread civil, those who hate the current system read the title and think "cool someone agreeing with me" and don't read it; in reality it is a well thought-out post.

[physics]

This is my first post and even though i have read every single post on the site since release; i have declined on making contributions until this thread. Thank you for giving such an insightful commentary on defiance and the games it's often compared to.
It's good to know this community has people like you in it.

[mattr]

I don't mind the direction that they went with progression in Defiance. My opinion on that may change since i'm only at ego 2000 right now, but at least the playerbase isn't segregated with the current implentation.

I will say that the weapon differences leave something to be desired, but i'm not really sure what a good way to change it would be. I do admit that i don't get excited when i see anything drop on the ground because let's face it, it doesn't really matter at this point. If the enemies were hard enough that the extra .5% in damage or +5 rounds in a mag mattered it might be a different story. The only thing i look for at the moment is a weapon in the class that i still need to level. Once i get my last few to 20 i probably won't even pick anything up anymore.

My only major gripe, which i see a lot of people mentioning, is that everything is too easy. I realise that not everyone agrees with that. One of my roommates can't even get past the story mission with the Jackleg guy, he got so frustrated that he hasn't played in a week. For myself i could beat everything in the game solo, blindfolded, with 1 hand, and someone beating me on the head with a nerf bat all at the same time. I realise that there's a fine balance considering the "skill" gap inbetween players, but something needs to be done for the people finding the game too easy. I literally watch movies on my laptop while i run co-ops now.