For those of you know don't know, this is normal (Trion Layoffs)

[Arsenic_Touch]

VGChartz shows a total of 754,882 copies sold (and thats only as of the 6th of April), and that doesn't include Digital Direct sales... I would wager they sold well over a million units in fact. Just the one caviot I wanted to add to your argument. Otherwise can't really argue.

It's funny that you bring up that number given the majority of those units are console and the console version doesn't require you to register an account to play, so they cannot be used to inflate the "registered accounts" number. The PC version on the other hand does require a registered account, so they can be counted. Are you saying that the PC outsold the consoles? doubt it.

[baelrusk]

It's funny that you bring up that number given the majority of those units are console and the console version doesn't require you to register an account to play, so they cannot be used to inflate the "registered accounts" number. The PC version on the other hand does require a registered account, so they can be counted. Are you saying that the PC outsold the consoles? doubt it.

Yup. It's all a play on wording.

[Phidbaker]

VGChartz shows a total of 754,882 copies sold (and thats only as of the 6th of April), and that doesn't include Digital Direct sales... I would wager they sold well over a million units in fact. Just the one caviot I wanted to add to your argument. Otherwise can't really argue.

Hmm.. I looked at that website and it doesn't say it sold in the 700K around. Says its about 0.53 millions units sold across all platforms globally. Perhaps the poster can give the search parameters so as to see how 0.53 million units became 700k. That sounds pretty meager, seemingly as the game had supposedly $150 million invested in it I believe it was? I am not sure if that was for both TV series and the game or just the game itself. Other sources state the game was about 70 million in costs with 5 years of development time. If it was just the game the ROI for just a million units; If they even in fact sold a million units, if that Vgchartz is true then they are woefully under expectations.

70 Million?!
http://live.wsj.com/video/syfy-takes...4-82848B8D297E

700k units as of April 6th? .53 million units May 11th?
http://www.vgchartz.com/gamedb/?name...=0&results=200

Hell my expectations at this point are so low, I would be happy if the devs didn't release content and just focus on bug fixes and their systems that push out new content so that when things are released they don't break or have to be called back when they find something "unexpected" with a weapon that is common. The game should have been in beta longer to address those issues.

As for layoffs that is typically not a good sign as that does mean there is not enough work to keep someone on the payroll. 2 months after launch and lay offs occurring when the game still has many issues that should be addressed software wise is very concerning. I would bet the news would have been taken better if most of the major bugs were addressed such as current content working adequately and patches that are introduced fixed more than they break, or even fixed what they were noted to suppose to fix.

I would like to think most would like fix bugs first and THEN put new content... The DLC people can be placated by extending the season pass to include further future updates down the road or part of next year if you bought it between a particular time frame.

As for the TV show tie in, to focus on that Trion might want to consider a long ongoing event that will tie into the TV series much later on. They need to buy time...

[Sanguinesun]

This happens all the time and it's not really that much of an issue. A company expands pre-development of a new project and then lets go of people once release is over. It's the way the industry works now. It's not bad news. The only bad news would be if a company got closed down.

The numbers required to develop and make Defiance and Storm Legion (Rift expansion) are much greater than what is required to run those games due to the size of the projects during development to the effort required to run it. Think cabin crews.

It's not because of 'fanboys' or 'poor sales' or even 'failed projects'.

If this was "normal" then why would seasoned game designers/developers some with multiple titles under their belts who are now ex Trion employees, be on twitter speaking in such a manner as to indicate this wasn't expected? If such was "normal" then they of course would have expected it.

Add to this then the context of how the Trion Community Relations Director was(is) off in Hawaii on vacation and many of those not served pink slips went off to watch Star Trek together when the news broke and the communty person for Rift and some of their devs did their best to avoid discussing the issue until players spammed the chat about it... and you get what seems to be a rather duality laden (if not toxic to some degree) corporate culture there at Trion at this point.

[Orge Lambart]

It's normal for shedding of some people after major projects finish, I think what got people talking was the reported 80% of the work force, that's a huge number and very abnormal. I don't think anyone knows how many people really got laid off, Trion is saying it wasn't 80%.

Although in Trion's case you have quite a few reasons for why so many were laid off. For starters they were developing both the Rift expansion and Defiance. Both of which would have shed some people once those projects were finished. Then you have Rift going from P2P to F2P, which again will cause some shedding of workers.

Now you have three major things all of which normally require people getting laid off once completed. Trion had a trifecta with all three of them. People getting fired in the games industry isn't unique, it happens all the time, job security is very low, unless you are in the top tier for your position, everyone else is considered expendable. I'd wager the vast majority of the lawoff's happened in the customer service department, like every p2p game that goes f2p I'd wager the support the rift players get from GM's will be really hit unless you pay a subscription.

Anyway, the figure is probably closer to 60 - 70% or about 20% - 23% per project, since I'll assume they didn't have Defiance developers working on Rift or Rift developers working on defiance. Also you have the service people let go because of the limited support free account Rift players will get. Sort of like Soe and Free EQ players, you can't get any support no matter what outside of issues with billing.

[EdgeTW]

It's normal for shedding of some people after major projects finish, I think what got people talking was the reported 80% of the work force, that's a huge number and very abnormal. I don't think anyone knows how many people really got laid off, Trion is saying it wasn't 80%.

Although in Trion's case you have quite a few reasons for why so many were laid off. For starters they were developing both the Rift expansion and Defiance. Both of which would have shed some people once those projects were finished. Then you have Rift going from P2P to F2P, which again will cause some shedding of workers.

Now you have three major things all of which normally require people getting laid off once completed. Trion had a trifecta with all three of them. People getting fired in the games industry isn't unique, it happens all the time, job security is very low, unless you are in the top tier for your position, everyone else is considered expendable. I'd wager the vast majority of the lawoff's happened in the customer service department, like every p2p game that goes f2p I'd wager the support the rift players get from GM's will be really hit unless you pay a subscription.

Anyway, the figure is probably closer to 60 - 70% or about 20% - 23% per project, since I'll assume they didn't have Defiance developers working on Rift or Rift developers working on defiance. Also you have the service people let go because of the limited support free account Rift players will get. Sort of like Soe and Free EQ players, you can't get any support no matter what outside of issues with billing.

Orge, multiple reports have pointed out that the Rift team wasn't touched in this round of layoffs, that a majority of it occurred at the San Diego office where Defiance is developed.

As for everyone else, whether you believe this is normal or not (it's not), understand this: the game we have now (which many feel is pretty light on content) was in development for 5 long years. Despite such a lengthy development time (a length which was shared by games like WoW and GW2 that somehow managed to release with much more content), many players share the opinion that it has a long way to go in terms of needing further development and bug fixes. A recent blog update with a laundry list of things the team would like to address seems to reinforce that opinion.

On top of this, Trion has pre-sold FIVE downloadable content packs with the promise to deliver them before the end of the year (which is now down to just over 6 months), and somewhere in the middle of all that we have a community hoping for regular free content updates, weekly episode missions tie-ins, and a truckload of bug fixes.

And now.. now the team is smaller than it was yesterday. A lot smaller if you believe the reports even a little.

Realistically, that's going to negatively impact an already impossible looking schedule no matter how any forthcoming press releases from Trion choose to spin it.

[CptBadger]

Hear, hear. EdgeTW speaks the truth. Well worded sir!

[Chemikz]

If this was "normal" then why would seasoned game designers/developers some with multiple titles under their belts who are now ex Trion employees, be on twitter speaking in such a manner as to indicate this wasn't expected? If such was "normal" then they of course would have expected it.

Add to this then the context of how the Trion Community Relations Director was(is) off in Hawaii on vacation and many of those not served pink slips went off to watch Star Trek together when the news broke and the communty person for Rift and some of their devs did their best to avoid discussing the issue until players spammed the chat about it... and you get what seems to be a rather duality laden (if not toxic to some degree) corporate culture there at Trion at this point.

Care to share these tweets from supposed seasoned game designers and developers with multiple titles under their belts? Or this claim of the community relations director being in Hawaii or the Star Trek thing? Links or screenshots would do.

First I've heard of this and I'm a little sceptical.

[thejx4]

Industry routine at this point. At least 3 times a year, a game is released, and staff is laid off. It's bad when the studio is shutdown after the game is released. This is pretty much normal as they don't need a full dev team, as its just DLC and general improvements from here on out, not building an entire game. You need systems managers, designers, etc for all that stuff. It's called downsizing guys.

[Swampster]

Care to share these tweets from supposed seasoned game designers and developers with multiple titles under their belts? Or this claim of the community relations director being in Hawaii or the Star Trek thing? Links or screenshots would do.

First I've heard of this and I'm a little sceptical.

Go search yourself... they're all there! Not hard to find... I do believe Dahnesse(sp?) has been scuba diving with manta rays today...