The Truth Is...

[WhiteCell]

I really enjoyed Defiance and got a number of my friends involved, we had a great time in game but then things started to die down at an alarming pace. These are things that need to be addressed if this game is ever going to survive. To the haters; there are some great things this game has going and only hope the devs put the puzzle together soon. To the fan boys; there are so many things driving people away from this game its time to accept and pressure the devs into expanding the game so that we all can get our moneys worth.

The Good:
The game mechanic is really good, shooting, moving, ADS etc. all feel refined enough that makes defiance a good shooter. Bar some mechanics like missing reflect sight, scopes feel a bit flat etc. I cannot argue that as a TPS Defiance gets a 7/10.

The Bad:
There is no progression; hold on before you all quote that this game is a "linear" shooter and designed around "skill". The problem is that there is no real benefit to leveling anything in this game and no real incentive. My argument is based around the fact that all content can be beaten with the starter weapons with no real effort. So only for the bragging rights and for the "pretty" factor is there reason to level ego, weapon xp etc. I do not want my character to get prettier and have new vehicle / ammo skins, I want my character to get better at what he does so that it enables me to do the more difficult content. This is the formula that drives most MMO games (Also please do not quote that this is NOT an MMO), If it really is not an MMO then it has serious competition in the shooter category as a single player game.

The Ugly:
- No communication as to the future plans for the game: If what we have seen, i.e. new pursuits at an adhoc basis that require you to collect data recorders (yawn), purchase only story updates, lighting lantern events etc. is what we can expect in the future then, bleh..
- No real clan support: Clans like to communicate easily, have a place to hang out and progress as a team into the "end game". Defiance has none of these well implemented, which is why you see clans dying all the time.
- No variation: most games that are in the MMO category with little variation and intense grind give you something really good for your efforts. In Defiance I am expected to grind for an orange weapon, to do what with exactly? My white assault rifle kills anything in this game via hip fire. So if you want me to grind 90k ark salvage to put a new attachment on my gun, that attachment better turn my gun into a nuke because the content around the corner that has bullet soak of 3 nukes requires it, if not there is no point in grinding for the orange weapon besides bragging rights.

The excluded:
You will notice I did not mention the bugs for good reason, 99.9% of games have bugs these days and it is not that causing people to stop playing. Its the fact that, as one of my friends said, "There is no substance to Defiance". The odd bug here and there I can live with, the lack of substance is a different issue altogether.

Conclusion:
I will hang onto my copy in the hope that the game gets good updates in future, although I did the same with MOHW and look how that turned out. Since these are the developers of RIFT I expect the same level of content updates and support in future.

You are being very generous giving a 7 out of 10 score for a MMO so basic it leaves out standard features that are industry wide only having functional basics like moving, aiming, and shooting. I'd consider this a fare score for a MMO release pre 2008, but if you truly are honest about Defiance's game mechanics, features, and how it's so poorly implemented on the PC the score is going to reflect that.

Rift is amazing because at it's core it had complex systems, rewards, and they truly wanted to create a competitive MMO. Defiance doesn't have that and it feels way behind the curve of other MMO's. Adding to that they have yet to deliver on the additional content marketing leaving a sour taste for any gamer that expected them to honor their marketing.

I can't think of a single MMO that I wouldn't choose over Defiance on the PC. This includes free to play MMO's as well which just erks me that much more that they are charging for it. I think the pro reviewers did a great injustice by not criticizing the game more than it was on the PC considering how competitive the game genre is.

I truly believe the developers at Trion designed this entire game for console gamers in mind knowing that there aren't MMO's on consoles(except DCUO) allowing them to half-*** the entire game and felt console gamers couldn't handle anything more complex. I guess we'll see when Destiny release whether Defiance can compete and whether Bungie considers their consumers brighter.

[Firetalion]

I really enjoyed Defiance and got a number of my friends involved, we had a great time in game but

Did you feel the game earned your money before or after this 'but'? Keep 'free will' in mind, and the fact that once you buy a video game, the money is already gone.

LOL, good to still see you around WhiteCell. Uninstalling Defiance hasn't kept you away from the one you love I see. =0)

[WhiteCell]

Did you feel the game earned your money before or after this 'but'? Keep 'free will' in mind, and the fact that once you buy a video game, the money is already gone.

LOL, good to still see you around WhiteCell. Uninstalling Defiance hasn't kept you away from the one you love I see. =0)

I reinstalled Rift last night to get ready for free to play. Saw an announcement today that starting tomorrow past owners get to play for free over the weekend.

Score!

I'm not sure how Trion can be so good and so bad at the same time.

[ironhands]

Rift is amazing because at it's core it had complex systems, rewards, and they truly wanted to create a competitive MMO. Defiance doesn't have that and it feels way behind the curve of other MMO's. Adding to that they have yet to deliver on the additional content marketing leaving a sour taste for any gamer that expected them to honor their marketing.

I can't think of a single MMO that I wouldn't choose over Defiance on the PC.

That's because you expected an MMORPG, and that's not what Defiance is. It's not intended to compete with Rift, WoW, or any other 10 hour a day MMORPG, that should be obvious from the moment anyone logs in; there are no time-sink quests. It's a casual game, not a second grind job :P

People overall can't seem to shake the notion that MMO means endless grinding content, because most MMO games are MMORPG. Other than EVE (which really defies all classification), none come immediately to mind, other than Planetside 1/2 and the beginning of Global Agenda. This game really has more in common with a lobby shooter than it does with most MMORPGs, but, how else could it have been marketed to distance itself from an MMORPG?

Calling it a shooter with online elements wouldn't do it justice, because that might just end up with people expecting a tacked on co-op/PvP mode like Bioshock 2 or DeadSpace 2.

Shared world shooter? That could work, but that sounds like Hellgate: London, which again didn't really have the multiplayer as a focal point from what I remember.

Unfortunately, MMO, imo, is the most accurate representation for what it is - a persistent world shooter with a (relatively) massive number of players, people just saw MMO, and Trion, and seemed to assume rift with guns.

OPs review is pretty accurate, the core engine is pretty stable and solid, bugs will be worked out, but the lack of content while those bugs are repaired, and the whole "game sucks 'cause i expected something different" attitude are the downfalls. New, harder content will turn things around hopefully.

One last thing, why do people seem to think Destiny will compete with Defiance? People can't play more than one game? Bungie's gone out of their way to say that it's not an MMO, do people expect to get that much more content out of it than any other shooter?

[ironhands]

doppelposten.

[Cortechs]

I reinstalled Rift last night to get ready for free to play. Saw an announcement today that starting tomorrow past owners get to play for free over the weekend.

Score!

I'm not sure how Trion can be so good and so bad at the same time.

Even for free, I would never be tempted to go back to Rift. That was a 1-monther for sure.

[Nerotic]

This. Difficulty needs to come from AI and tactics. Not be meat shields. While it was annoying fighting the Rogue E-Reps because of their health and shields, they also showed better AI, flushing you from cover, flanking, forcing you to roll between grenades, rolling out of the way of your grenades etc...

The Rogue E-Reps where the first mobs I hated fighting in this game. There also the only mobs I had to fight and not butcher. The only mobs that got some adrenaline flowing. The only mobs I want to see more of.
Those mobs restored a suprising amount of hope for me.
Communication both in game and what we get told from Trion needs a MAJOR overhaul start from scratch. We get feed **** and are expected to grin a little to much is that getting better... kinda I guess I feel like it but would love to be able say yes without my inner fanboy getting let out of the dungeon

[AssKicka]

You are being very generous giving a 7 out of 10 score for a MMO so basic it leaves out standard features that are industry wide only having functional basics like moving, aiming, and shooting.

The 7/10 was only for the TPS aspect of the game. As for the MMO part its very lacking now. I will withhold my opinion until the first two DLCs, by then we should have a very good idea as to the roadmap and future of the MMO side.

[AssKicka]

The difficult content you described is increased health, or increase in enemy numbers. Not actually more difficult or challenging. And you do get better, it just isn't in the form of direct damage and when it is, it is not a huge boost. In this game, intelligence and skill wins out over stats. I like that.

Essentiall, there is no benefit to leveling if the enemies increase with you. That's not progression either.

My point here was not to encourage a vertical progression but rather to point out that there is no benefit, reward or incentive to level weapons, get attachment synergies and apply mods. Why would I want a purple or orange weapon when the white one does the job just as good.

This kind of implementation makes me think I am grinding for those weapons and synergies for only one reason, "Fluff" and "Bragging" rights.

The example I used is your classic MMO type of vertical progression. I understand that vertical progression makes older content obsolete which is why it was not implemented in that fashion in Defiance. The problem with Defiance's method of moving away from vertical progression is that the game gets boring quick because there is no need to obtain better weapons.

[AssKicka]

Did you feel the game earned your money before or after this 'but'? Keep 'free will' in mind, and the fact that once you buy a video game, the money is already gone.

I do not feel I got the full value of my investment, purely because the marketing and communication around the game created a perception of new "meaningful" content on a regular basis. The perception was created that there would be clan and group content; by group content I do not mean easy things that can be zerged by a group op people, rather group content that requires tactics and teamwork. The current state of coop is laughably easy, the ark falls are a zerg fest that require no skill or teamwork.

I did however enjoy the general game play as a TPS. Vehicles are great, exploring was fun and the quests were OK (except for my mute toon). Once all those were done the "grind" got boring quick because of lack of incentive to grind.

One thing I particularly liked was the achievement to get a 360, 720 and 1080 aerial spin with the quads. Me and some friends were driving around testing different mountains and jump spots to get the achievements. Almost felt like teamwork and a race to see who could get all of them first.