the state of smg's and syphon proc

[Kiserai]

I'm thinking that's a big "yes".

[Maledict]

Syphon appears fine to me.
Using defensive build and with resistance to it, seems to work just fine.

[DrFeelzgud]

I've said this, countless others have said it before me; siphon needs to be altered and nano triggers need to be normalized.

Siphon should not be dealing flat damage, that makes no sense. It leads to the current state we have now, where low damage bullets in high volume are preferred.

Very well said, I agree.

Probably all Nano effects could be reworked some and for different reasons and different ways, but Siphon when used to maximum effect with the right weapons puts it on a completely different level in my opinion, and is unbalanced in comparison. Which is why siphon is currently the "go to" Nano in PvP for the most part.

[Heinzlee]

However, the above change would also require nano trigger normalization. Right now, each bullet regardless of weapon seems to have the same chance to trigger a nano effect. This means that high volumes of bullets are preferred over slower, burst type weapons. What I would like to see is a mathematical formula applied to each weapon that gives every weapon a roughly equal chance to trigger nano effects across a time period. For example, a bolt action sniper rifle would have very high nano effect trigger rates because it fires so slowly with only a single bullet. When compared to a Fragger, both weapons would have a similar count of nano effect triggers over a twenty second time period of continuous fire.

Then are are you going to balance the ammo load for each weapon as well? So that each person carries the same damage potential in clips? Because if you implement this, LMG will have an advantage within automatic weapons since my 350 max bullets with the 100+ potentially in my clip... each doing 400 dmg each (using SAW) means I don't have to get extra ammo very often.

At the moment, with the tachmag, I need extra ammo after every 3 kills. About a quarter to a third of my deaths are becaues I flat out ran out of ammo and ran into an opponent on my way to get more ammo.

[dreamon666]

I play enough.

It's not a glitch, it's simply gameplay mechanics that allow Fraggers and Tachmags to trigger nano effects faster than other weapons. It's not news, it's nothing special, it's just poorly balanced gameplay. There's really nothing else to it. I am not sure how else I can explain this to you, as I feel I've been very clear in outlining what it is, how it works, and why it needs to be changed.

Your assertion that people are getting four nano effect triggers in a single Fragger volley is, in my opinion, completely unfounded. There's no evidence of it beyond your single anecdotal claim. If this were the case, people would be dying in a single volley from a Fragger in every engagement. That would be incredibly suspect and would be a more widespread issue, not a single, isolated complaint from someone more intent on insulting others than discussing an issue.

Well, that's exactly what happened to me dozens of times, that i die with a single voley of 2 shells from a VOT fragger, with full shield on and everything!
And i don't know how else to explain it to you either, because it's clear as day to me that if my Syphon VOT Fragger isn't doing that and some other people their Syphon VOT Fragger are doing that, then it can't be a normal gameplay mechanic!!!
Read this part very carefully before replying and try to understand it: You're talking about a weapon type that has more chance to proc Syphon like Fraggers and Tachmags, well everybody knows that, that aint new to me, what iam saying is that the exact same weapon: the SYPHON VOT FRAGGER, has different proc rates for a small amount of people and not for the majority of players (they proc syphon even more than normal Fraggers)... so how else can you explain that besides glitching the gun?
I'll type it even more simple here: same exact guns with same nano effect, but different proc rates for different people =/= normal gameplay mechanics!

Glitching the gun is even a very well known concept within the game, almost everybody who plays PVP often has heard of it (although a few know how to do it), so why do you still deny the existence of glitched guns?

[RapBreon]

Read this part very carefully before replying and try to understand it: You're talking about a weapon type that has more chance to proc Syphon like Fraggers and Tachmags, well everybody knows that, that aint new to me, what iam saying is that the exact same weapon: the SYPHON VOT FRAGGER, has different proc rates for a small amount of people and not for the majority of players (they proc syphon even more than normal Fraggers)... so how else can you explain that besides glitching the gun?
I'll type it even more simple here: same exact guns with same nano effect, but different proc rates for different people =/= normal gameplay mechanics!

Your arguments are tenuous at best. Everything said prior to this paragraph used as justification for your assertion are shaky as stand alones. The 'admission' of some individuals does add 'some' weight (assuming you have evidence). But, there are a few things to note about 'admissions':

1. First they might not even understand what you mean by 'glitch', I've conversed with many individuals in game who aren't English wizards (for many reasons, ESL for instance). Strained comprehension plus some guy leading them with very narrow questioning and admissions are easy to garner.

2. They may construe glitch as to be using Syphon, I've 'seen' people refer to Syphon as glitched, so simply using may be inferred as glitching. Ditto goes to VoT Fraggers. Often people compound bad balancing as 'glitching/cheating/hacking', etc.

3. You're little spiel about people not admitting to things they don't do? Is simply incorrect. False confessions are a documented phenomenon (I'm not referencing a forum post, I can't be arsed). Just because you perceive yourself as 'above that' in a comfortable, lucid state (not high, drunk, pressured by others/circumstance, etc.) doesn't mean others aren't.

4. Also trolling/lying. If someone ****ish PMs me and tells me I'm hacking and I'm in the right 'mood' I'll give less than admirable responses which could reinforce their preconceived notions about me. Yet I'm completely innocent. Wide range of emotions and behaviours us humans are capable of. I'm not an automaton, I do make emotional decisions.

As for the same gun, having much higher proc rates; there are multiple ways outside of the gun itself to mod your proc chance right? Catalyst mod alone is a 15% increased chance, numerous perks and even a tighter pellet spread/fire-rate, etc. would all increase proc rate. It seems these 'glitchers' probably do well most games (better than you I assume), it may be a simple case of them exploiting their equipment and perks to the best of their ability.

I built all my guns around nano proc, I barely ever died and almost always topped the scoreboard, being ousted by only one player, who built the exact same way with their close range guns. And it felt like my guns proced HEAPS more than other people to the point of being accused of exactly what you accuse others of, hacking/glitching. I recognise that my experiences aren't sufficient to form factual basis for my case alone, but you apparently respond to anecdotal evidence, so I present it.

Glitching the gun is even a very well known concept within the game, almost everybody who plays PVP often has heard of it (although a few know how to do it), so why do you still deny the existence of glitched guns?

Stop presuming you speak for the majority like we're some amorphous blob with perfect and accurate knowledge of the game. Additionally, it doesn't lend any weight to your claim.

Now I'll admit, I haven't played in ages, so a new glitch may have popped up. But from two weeks ago and backwards there was no 'glitch', merely poorly balanced weaponry. It appears to be the same especially seeing as the people arguing against your point were playing when I was and grasp how proc rates work and expressed it multiple times. More than happy to change my mind however.

TL;DR: Your 'evidence' is extremely far from compelling, justification above.

[Xervez]

Currently right now

Fire Rate Comparison:

VOT Tachmag Pulsers 25.0
VOT Pulser 15.0
FRC Nomad SMG 16.0
FRC Sub-Carbine 18.0
VBI SMG 15.0

The discrepancy of the fire rates pretty much shows the problem, from 18 to 25 that's a big leap.

The VOT Tachmag Pulser needs to be brought down inline to balance the other SMG's. The time to kill with the other SMG's is about right with the amount of damage you can take, anything higher and you die too fast.

I've been playing around with the other SMG's and you nowhere near proc that much as a VOT Tachmag Pulser hence you don't see many people using the other SMG's with Syhpon.

Currently Flavor of the month guns are (easiest to use)

Immunizers
VOT Tachmag Pulser (Syphon)
VOT Fraggers (Syphon)

Syphon nano as a whole needs to be reworked either that or make the shield resistance actually make you immune to the effect so the other nano's are viable.

Hands down you balance out the syphon nano and you will weed out whose good and whose not, right now Syphon is a crutch to help stay alive and kill fast, without it you rarely see them not taking a good amount of deaths.

Anyone have a video with a Cannoneer Tachmag with the Cannoneer mods in it, how fast do those things proc?

[Sdric]

Currently right now

Fire Rate Comparison:

VOT Tachmag Pulsers 25.0
VOT Pulser 15.0
FRC Nomad SMG 16.0
FRC Sub-Carbine 18.0
VBI SMG 15.0

The discrepancy of the fire rates pretty much shows the problem, from 18 to 25 that's a big leap.

The VOT Tachmag Pulser needs to be brought down inline to balance the other SMG's. The time to kill with the other SMG's is about right with the amount of damage you can take, anything higher and you die too fast.

I've been playing around with the other SMG's and you nowhere near proc that much as a VOT Tachmag Pulser hence you don't see many people using the other SMG's with Syhpon.

Currently Flavor of the month guns are (easiest to use)

Immunizers
VOT Tachmag Pulser (Syphon)
VOT Fraggers (Syphon)

Syphon nano as a whole needs to be reworked either that or make the shield resistance actually make you immune to the effect so the other nano's are viable.

Hands down you balance out the syphon nano and you will weed out whose good and whose not, right now Syphon is a crutch to help stay alive and kill fast, without it you rarely see them not taking a good amount of deaths.

Anyone have a video with a Cannoneer Tachmag with the Cannoneer mods in it, how fast do those things proc?

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAA.
You just made my day bro!
If anything SMGs have to be buffed, not freaking nerfed.
So far Syphon Tachmags are the only SMGs that have a slight chance against Shotguns.
If you do that we can directly remove all weapon but shotguns and infectors from pvp.
Not like a Trion isnt trying that anyways though.
The AR recoil nerf was a huge step into that direction...

[dreamon666]

@RapBreon: wauw, that was a wall of text right there, iam not gonna copy it in this reply to safe some forum space.
So using fancy English words makes you more right than me then? Since that's what you're also argueing about...

Let me put this simple: you haven't played in two weeks, you haven't been participating in any other topics recently, so your claim is even less compelling than mine! If you read other topics about glitching, hacking,... then you'd know that there are at least 2 people in the game that admitted to the glitch abuse (who's name i cannot mention, but they came from Whiskey Tango Foxtrot clan, so ask there if you need info!). One of them admitted it to me personally and explained how it works.
So if i see other people (who had contact with that-person-i-cannot-mention) pull off the same incredibly proc rates with the exact same guns, then what am i to assume from that? That he's a good little boy and would never be cheating?
The prob is that i do not know a single player in real life, so technically that makes everybody a potential liar.

Do you know how this is the most easily solved (since you're such a logical wonder)?
If people do get accused of abusing the Syphon glitch then THEY should prove their innocence by using different weapons and see if their skills are still so OP or not. That's alot faster than people trying to gather evidence about that player!

[greatdividers]

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAA.
You just made my day bro!
If anything SMGs have to be buffed, not freaking nerfed.
So far Syphon Tachmags are the only SMGs that have a slight chance against Shotguns.
If you do that we can directly remove all weapon but shotguns and infectors from pvp.
Not like a Trion isnt trying that anyways though.
The AR recoil nerf was a huge step into that direction...

uh, tachmag pulser w/ syphon is by far the strongest weapon in the game. and the 'AR recoil nerf' is a bug, not a nerf.

blah blah blah

provide proof that a syphon 'glitch' exists then