the state of smg's and syphon proc

[KBob]

I agree, SMGs aren't that effective even with syphon, certainly not over powered. You need to get crits to make enough dmg fast enough to kill someone and almost everybody with shotguns, ARs, LMGs or Infectors will kill faster.

ok, just my 2 cents here. DPS wise - Pistols are better than SMGs, SMGs are better than shotguns, shotguns are better than ARs , and ARs are better than snipers. good LMGs are between SMG and AR, but with HIGH restriction on mobility (that is absent for SMG). This progression is offset by range damage reduction. Now about nano - it looks like there are quite a few variables on nano frequency as well, and weapon type + ROF are definitely among them. I thought that cool down timer was introduced and removed already, but it could be just my mistake.

[Xervez]

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAA.
You just made my day bro!
If anything SMGs have to be buffed, not freaking nerfed.
So far Syphon Tachmags are the only SMGs that have a slight chance against Shotguns.
If you do that we can directly remove all weapon but shotguns and infectors from pvp.
Not like a Trion isnt trying that anyways though.
The AR recoil nerf was a huge step into that direction...

Also the fact you mention that you can't kill a shotgun user without a tachmag proves you have NO IDEA what the hell your doing with the other SMG's.

The AR / LMG recoil situation was a bug, no AR / LMG should have perfect no recoil and beable to be shot from the hip with perfect accuracy, get over it.

I've proven time and time again in PvP that the other SMG's are viable but helleva a lot harder to use but they are indeed still fast to kill players.

SMG's don't need to be buffed if you can't kill a guy with that many bullets upclose your just bad, the time to kill players is extremely fast even without the nano. I've been using a plain green FRC Nomad with no nano and lvl 1 mods and still do plenty well in pvp and against tachmag (syphon) users.

Also the VOT Fragger should be toned down even more since its a 2 shot shotgun, there needs to be more variety so people actually use the 1 shot shotguns again hence no one uses anything else besides it.

[KBob]

Also the VOT Fragger should be toned down even more since its a 2 shot shotgun, there needs to be more variety so people actually use the 1 shot shotguns again hence no one uses anything else besides it.

I use blue frc heavy sawed-off scattergun with fire nano .. it's 1 shot kill when I'm cloaked (or pull a crit) from up to 5-6 meters (I played a lot with courier so I know where to aim )

[Sdric]

Propper reading is damn difficult, isn't it?

I never said that you can't kill shotguns with SMGs.
I said they have a slight change.
Which simply means that at the current meta they're pretty much outclassed.
Mainly due to cloak making very small dead-zone shotguns have vs. SMGs , before those are useless due to damage falloff, aswell barely noticeable.

Also SMGs only deal damage if you really manage to land consecutive headshot.
A crit deals ~260 damage at close range.
Thats 1950/260=7,5 ~8 headshots (SMG with crit bonus) just to break the shield - no perks included.
Upon break the damage will get at least halved by meta perks.

Also the heads in this game are quite small /even accurate weapon are innaccurate - so with a normal SMGs, even with perfect aim, ~2/10 bullets will miss.

Now imagine your enemy keeps bunny hopping.
His shotgun needs 1 to 3 clicks to kill you without further aiming (while having a higher chance to trigger nanos)




You're either cloaked to get your enemy by surprise - or you enemy has to be too dumb to bunny hop to loose with a shotgun in an even fight.



SMGs have the potential to out-dps shotguns - BUT:
However the only beat shotguns on paper with restrictions like all-time perfect aiming and/or enemies that don't move/bunnyhop while additionally ignoring perks and the synergy with ego-powers.

[greatdividers]

snip

you're forgetting that a tachmag pulser shoots at least 25 bullets in one second. now add syphon into that and its just ******ed. sure aiming it is marginally more difficult than a shotgun but it's significantly stronger if you can.

[Sdric]

you're forgetting that a tachmag pulser shoots at least 25 bullets in one second. now add syphon into that and its just ******ed. sure aiming it is marginally more difficult than a shotgun but it's significantly stronger if you can.

Vot Fraggers have a fire-rate of 5.3/s
5.3*12=63.6 possible procs.
That's more than twice of the 25 bullets by a Tachmag.

In a nano-battle even Tachmags loose.


But let's ignore the nanos for a sec.
You named Tachmags and I already stated those do have a chance, even if Shotguns have the upper hand.

Now, how many other SMGs are viable?
Shotguns?
Well VOT Fragger, VOT Auto Fragger, FRC Scattergun, VBI Shotgun (not including the sawed off).

[Xervez]

I use blue frc heavy sawed-off scattergun with fire nano .. it's 1 shot kill when I'm cloaked (or pull a crit) from up to 5-6 meters (I played a lot with courier so I know where to aim )

I meant 2 shots per trigger pull not time to kill, you can't compare pumps and Sawed off's they are both different categories.

Propper reading is damn difficult, isn't it?

I never said that you can't kill shotguns with SMGs.
I said they have a slight change.
Which simply means that at the current meta they're pretty much outclassed.
Mainly due to cloak making very small dead-zone shotguns have vs. SMGs , before those are useless due to damage falloff, aswell barely noticeable.

Also SMGs only deal damage if you really manage to land consecutive headshot.
A crit deals ~260 damage at close range.
Thats 1950/260=7,5 ~8 headshots (SMG with crit bonus) just to break the shield - no perks included.
Upon break the damage will get at least halved by meta perks.

Also the heads in this game are quite small /even accurate weapon are innaccurate - so with a normal SMGs, even with perfect aim, ~2/10 bullets will miss.

Now imagine your enemy keeps bunny hopping.
His shotgun needs 1 to 3 clicks to kill you without further aiming (while having a higher chance to trigger nanos)

You're either cloaked to get your enemy by surprise - or you enemy has to be too dumb to bunny hop to loose with a shotgun in an even fight.

SMGs have the potential to out-dps shotguns - BUT:
However the only beat shotguns on paper with restrictions like all-time perfect aiming and/or enemies that don't move/bunnyhop while additionally ignoring perks and the synergy with ego-powers.

Proper Spelling is damn difficult isn't it?

Tracking a player while he/she is moving around is a skill issue not a gun issue and we are not talking about cloak in this thread, we are discussing SMG's and syphon in particular get your shtako straight.

[Sdric]

I meant 2 shots per trigger pull not time to kill, you can't compare pumps and Sawed off's they are both different categories.



Proper Spelling is damn difficult isn't it?

Tracking a player while he/she is moving around is a skill issue not a gun issue and we are not talking about cloak in this thread, we are discussing SMG's and syphon in particular get your shtako straight.

Well, English isn't my mother tongue.
How many languages do you speak?

Funny how you ignore my post about syphon.

But continue to attack me personally it just proves me right, you're out of facts to underline your thesis.
So far I've seen not a single prove or any maths from your side.

All you post are 2 liners which say "no" and offend people.
I don't wanna join your level but damn you're being pathetic.

But I guess there's no point of arguing anyways.
The new strategy of shotgunners and infector scrubs obviously is to call other weapons op in order to distract.

I'll respond when you actually start to lay down facts instead of simplying yelling subjective phrases.

[Lycan]

You guys are arguing so much that you're derailing the real problem. The problem isn't smg or shotguns, it's syphon.

It heals too much, too quickly, and does too much damage. It's incredibly OP in pvp and significantly OP in pve compared to the other nanos.

[Xervez]

Back to the point I mentioned before,

Syphon nano as a whole needs to be reworked either that or make the shield resistance actually make you immune to the effect so the other nano's are viable.

Hands down you balance out the syphon nano and you will weed out whose good and whose not, right now Syphon is a crutch to help stay alive and kill fast, without it you rarely see them not taking a good amount of deaths.

Anyone have a video with a Cannoneer Tachmag with the Cannoneer mods in it, how fast do those things proc?