the state of smg's and syphon proc

[Sdric]

Lycan is right.
Syphon is general is a problem.
I've also agreed on that before.

However, I think it's rather Syphon that deserves a nerf than the weapons which profit from it.
Especially since many guns which take great advantage of Syphon ain't half that strong without it.

[Notturno]

Hands down you balance out the syphon nano and you will weed out whose good and whose not, right now Syphon is a crutch to help stay alive and kill fast, without it you rarely see them not taking a good amount of deaths.

I have two builds I use in PvP. The one I used for a long while was a Siphon VOT Fragger and Immunizer, because those two weapons are (arguably) the most overpowered weapons in the game.

I personally hold no qualms about using either, as I feel that doing anything within the realm of the game's rules is perfectly acceptable. However, it's not personally satisfying to me to play that build; it feels incredibly easy to play, and I don't find it challenging in the slightest. I've racked up a few impressive scores with that build, but like I said earlier, it just isn't fulfilling to compete that way. I would rather get practiced in a more "balanced" setup so I don't feel the effects of the changes too much, rather than using the flavor of the month to crutch myself.

I absolutely agree with you; weapons like the VOT Fragger (siphon), Immunizer, and VOT Tachmag Pulser (siphon), are generally artificially inflating the scores and exaggerating the abilities of players. I'm not saying it's wrong to use them, or calling out anyone who does, but when they are "nerfed" you will see some dramatic drops in certain players' scores. The flat damage and life steal from siphon is just way out of whack, and makes me wonder who exactly at Trion gave the okay for it to be implemented this way. I've said this before, and I'll say it again; percentage damage and life steal scaling based on the bullet that triggered the effect. This should be something that is hotfixed, it's pretty bad.

[Dracian]

you can go ask Whiskey Tango Foxtrot

And still the same QQ.

It's funny, yesterday, on Observatory, you were in the top players of your team. You were only arrogant (especially against me). Today, you were in the abysses of the team with a very bad K/D ratio and all I read from you is rage, hackusations and QQ.

You seriously have a problem man.

[RapBreon]

@RapBreon: wauw, that was a wall of text right there, iam not gonna copy it in this reply to safe some forum space.
So using fancy English words makes you more right than me then? Since that's what you're also argueing about...

Let me put this simple: you haven't played in two weeks, you haven't been participating in any other topics recently, so your claim is even less compelling than mine! If you read other topics about glitching, hacking,... then you'd know that there are at least 2 people in the game that admitted to the glitch abuse (who's name i cannot mention, but they came from Whiskey Tango Foxtrot clan, so ask there if you need info!). One of them admitted it to me personally and explained how it works.
So if i see other people (who had contact with that-person-i-cannot-mention) pull off the same incredibly proc rates with the exact same guns, then what am i to assume from that? That he's a good little boy and would never be cheating?
The prob is that i do not know a single player in real life, so technically that makes everybody a potential liar.[/B]

I used my 'fancy English' words to inform you of why your arguments were less than compelling. I didn't claim anything, merely rejected yours. Your summary of you've been saying all along is no different from your original introduction.

I admitted my lack of personal involvement does qualify me less to express my personal experiences on the subject. But I did tell you, this was happening (extreme procs) well before I stopped playing and it wasn't glitching then from where I sat. Those posts of 'cheating and glitching' were consistent when I did play, so nothing new there. This is why your claim is incredulous to me as this has been the case for a long time, and when I played I never seen a Syphon bug, merely well equipped people. Also I can read a post without commenting on it.

It may turn out that you are right, but my issue was only partially this (the bit I care least about), the crux of my issue was your method of presenting your 'evidence'. Which at the moment is borderline proselyting mixed in with humorously misplaced condescension.

Allow me to summarise: I do not care if you turn out to be correct, I only care that you think your method of convincing is valid and that we're apparently 'idiot English nerds' for not seeing it.

Do you know how this is the most easily solved (since you're such a logical wonder)?
If people do get accused of abusing the Syphon glitch then THEY should prove their innocence by using different weapons and see if their skills are still so OP or not. That's alot faster than people trying to gather evidence about that player!

You know that's the complete opposite of how the Western justice system operates rights? The accuser should have the burden of proof. This is in general, some specific laws do reverse this onus. In the case of having an all powerful entity (Trion), simply reporting to them and letting them handle would work best as they have the actual ability to tell who is and is not 'cheating'.

Oh yeah another thing worth noting is that whilst largely on the level of your evidence, you specifically may find compelling. A lot of people have accused me of both glitching and hacking, yet I do not; some of these very same people make threads and posts complaining about hackers. So making a thread and complaining really isn't amazing evidence of hacking/glitching.

Under your system I would then have to waste hours of my time against my will to prove I'm innocent, simply because someone 'said I am'. Yeah-****ing-right-mate. I hereby decree that you must invest 12 hours of unedited gameplay footage from 24 consecutive games (no breaks plz, might mean you cheated) to prove your not glitching because I believe you proced Syphon 6 times in one Tachmag clip that one time.

All this stems from the fact it is FAR MORE LIKELY someone kicked your *** legitimately than it is someone is hacking (which is much more rare than people think) or glitching (which is admittedly more common) and their ego can't handle it. I have had some downright hilarious accusations levelled at me personally because of this.

I know I'm wasting my time, I know how people get, but I am semi-enjoying this.

[birdiez]

HI guys.

I am ravenz. I am currently running fragger + smg . what i have noticed lately is that techmag siphone procing is rather unreliable. i would often kill 3 ppl with out seeing it proc once. but at times run into a group and have it proc back to back rounds which just put me into unkillable modes (i strongly suspect that the perk detachment is stackable)

at that high of a fire rate any techmag with huge mag expansion would kill on a full mag. i am running 2 techmag one with 75 round the other 88. its liberating to c all 150 round emptied out in 3-4 sec. particularly when one increase attack speed by 30% after a kill

as to nerfing siphone. It would balance out the weapon quite a bit but then u will c alot of pve lover complaining. cause siphone is also great in pve.

[Heinzlee]

percentage damage and life steal scaling based on the bullet that triggered the effect. This should be something that is hotfixed, it's pretty bad.

I agree with this but...

It does make me wonder how the other nano's work.
Is fire percentage based?

If we look at another characteristic difference in Nano effects it's that Syhon is a once off effect.
It doesn't work 'over time' like Fire, Bio, Toxic and Electric.

Since Syphon is a once off effect, proc'ing it multiple times is beneficial multiple times and therefore, proc'ing it multiple times bloody quickly is even more beneficial.

Syphon wouldn't be so imba if the other nano's could benefit from multiple proc's. If Fire dmg stacked each time it proc'ed or the additional dmg you took from Toxic compounded...

[Heinzlee]

HI guys.

I am ravenz. I am currently running fragger + smg . what i have noticed lately is that techmag siphone procing is rather unreliable. i would often kill 3 ppl with out seeing it proc once. but at times run into a group and have it proc back to back rounds which just put me into unkillable modes (i strongly suspect that the perk detachment is stackable)

at that high of a fire rate any techmag with huge mag expansion would kill on a full mag. i am running 2 techmag one with 75 round the other 88. its liberating to c all 150 round emptied out in 3-4 sec. particularly when one increase attack speed by 30% after a kill

as to nerfing siphone. It would balance out the weapon quite a bit but then u will c alot of pve lover complaining. cause siphone is also great in pve.

How can you tell it proc'ed?
I'm too busy trying to keep my crosshairs over you (and others) to tell.

We've been in a few syphon tachmag battles in game.
Though the last time it was usually your nano-fragger that did me in since I kept coming out of cloak right next to you!!

[ironcladtrash]

I have a syphon saw and it was bugging out today doing the echelon contract but I don't know what triggered it. If I killed some one with it I kept getting credit for the next person they killed. I was getting constant kills against my own team mates the funny thing was whatever team I was on actually won some games because it added to the kill total.

[Beat PunchBeef]

Syphon wouldn't be so imba if the other nano's could benefit from multiple proc's. If Fire dmg stacked each time it proc'ed or the additional dmg you took from Toxic compounded...

I cannot speak much for the elements outside of Radiation because my personal favorite weapons both have that and in general I enjoy using it more than anything else, so I do not tend to follow the meta, and thus have nothing to compare it to.
However, I can assure you that Radiation, the nano effect that adds the extra damage percentage, does compound. I have used it extensively, and even when no one in my group on co-op maps was using a Radiation weapon, or when I was the only one shooting, I noticed the effect stacking. This was on a SAW, with no boost to nano effect trigger chances coming from the mods. I did occasionally have a boost, the Insult to Injury perk, which is I believe 9% higher chance on a critical hit, but I have noticed it even without that perk unlocked, though I'll admit it's more noticeable with it on.

It might be different in PvP, and I'll admit that because of that my claim might not be relevant on this boards. I do not PvP much, and when I do I I'm not very good, and also I rarely have time to notice Radiation activating once, or do not find them lasting long enough for it to activate twice.
I was actually only on this board because I wanted to check the general happenings in PvP.

[XxIndomitablexX]

Ok I needed an aspirin after reading this. I play video games to have fun. I have a decent IQ but would rather not have to do math to figure which guns are better than others, I think the game designers should balance it themselves, I just want to point and shoot. That being said, some of the intellects here and they way that they laid out exactly where the problem lies is pretty impressive, my hats off to you guys. simply put the effect damage should be adjusted to fit the rate of fire so the effect measures the same over time.

oh and I was advised when I first started to pvp to use a vot fragger and an inmmunizer, great advice quickhatch, thank you....I still use them