Griefing vs not knowing

[Sanguinesun]

I posted this in the other similarly running thread but I'll do it here too:

Im happy to see the griefers responding in the thread since it helps support what people have been complaining about in regards to this.

The issue at this point isnt the griefers, its the devs for making the decision(as far back as ignoring the concern in alpha) to not change the mechanics of the weak points in the crystals being tied into the skitterling biting them. There are more than a few options they could do to change this but simply refuse to and I believe it to be a stubborn sticking point for them.

1. They could create timed skitterlings that cannot be targeted or killed that chew the crystals then die after doing so(and do not bug the arkfall).

2. They could simply time the weak spots to appear automatically(using a similar code they used on the sieges with the capture points that would get puss balls on them that randomly would appear/disappear based on damaging. -This- would be one of the easiest of changes to implement since some of the base code is there. EGO could simply be revised to say "target the weak points on the crystal" or something to similar effect.

3. Remove the weakspots altogether, make the crystal's damage scale different and let all the nade-***** go to.

4. Make arkfall skitterlings immune to aoe weapons(impractical design change but there you go).

5. Replace hellbug red crystal arkfalls permanently with blue ones instead.

6. Make hellbugs randomly drop a goo type item that the player has to melee attack the crystal with(1 shot) that creates a weak spot made by the player(similar to the other red crystal arkfalls of other enemy types using weapons.

And I could go on. Again at this point its not the griefers that are the issue, its the developers having groomed a segment of the player base to be griefers with a poor game mechanic.

[Newsin]

I am a skitterling killer. I don't do it to cause others grief. I can't recall any arkfall I have ever been to that people did not finish. I left a post in the other thread of this nature, but in case you missed it, here it is verbatim. PS: I've been playing this game since day 1, and I have a good reputation. A lot of people will vouch for me on this. Anyway, here is my post on the other thread:

I don't think you guys understand. I find it funny the people who take the time to type out huge sentences at arkfalls because people are killing skitterlings. Use that time to shoot stuff. To complain that someone is making it take longer when you yourself are spending minutes to type is kind of ironic. But, just in case you didn't know, it is either noobs or pros killing the skitterlings. The people in the middle are the ones complaining.

Reasons to kill skitterlings:
1) The arkfall pursuit (arkhunting as a way of life III)
2) The combat pursuit (living to kill V)
3) Ammo (the skitterlings drop it. If you run out of ammo, you can't shoot anything anyway)
4) More rewards (namely ark salvage, either in the form of ark salvage or weapons to be broken down. I make about 11-15 or more keys per arkfall because of ark salvage. That's a mod box right there)
5) If 40+ players can't clear all the crystals in the given time, that's kind of sad
6) Instant grenade refreshes! Not revealing the perk/nade combo, but I can throw 3-4 sometimes more grenades in a row, which not only damages the skitterlings but all other baddies caught in the blast, crystal too about half the time for some weird reason)

Hints:
1) Wait til a skitterling bites a hole, then destroy everything (timing is key more than complaining that people are killing skitterlings).
2) Stop skitterlings from going cocoon. If a skitterling has been on the screen for a bit, it could go cocoon and pop out a warrior or an archer
3) Spread the heck out on crystals! This game scales difficulty based on how many people are in an area. There are 4-5 crystals up, why should 40 people just be on the same one. Spread out, makes the mobs easier, makes the crystals easier, makes the arkfall quicker.

An example. Me and another person (just the 2 of us) were breezing through a scrapper arkfall. Taking out all the crystals or whatever those are was swift. We get to the Progenitor. The first time it went to repair, the 2 of us knocked it down to half-life. The arms were a breeze, and the mobs barely scratched us. 2 more people showed up, and the difficulty more than doubled. Now 4 people didn't even do half the dmg me and the other guy did, and the repair took longer cuz it repaired 4 arms instead of 3. The mobs didn't go down in one clip, it more than doubled the difficulty.

I've been playing since day 1, I grind ark salvage, I'm going to kill the skitterlings, and I'm also going to go to a crystal where no-one is. If I don't place first I am in top 3 as long as I am trying and I get there within 3-5 minutes of it starting.

Don't call people noobs when you aren't exactly pro, man. Just sayin'

I read your post, I didnt call anyone noobs. I said I didnt know if they were new to the game or not. Also I stated that I often leave the crystal at about half way and move on to the next to get an early start so that when people get there its already half dead or so.

I dont care how long you have played to be honest. I to have been playing sense day one. Im not here to have a pissing match Im here to say have a little respect for other players it should be mutual.

[JxSiN]

I read your post, I didnt call anyone noobs. I said I didnt know if they were new to the game or not. Also I stated that I often leave the crystal at about half way and move on to the next to get an early start so that when people get there its already half dead or so.

I dont care how long you have played to be honest. I to have been playing sense day one. I was in Alpha as well I was also in Beta. Im not here to have a pissing match Im here to say have a little respect for other players it should be mutual.

Hey man, it wasn't directed at you, it was just a broad statement. The jist of it is, yes some people may be noobs but some people may have an ulterior motive behind their actions. I was just presenting an alternate reason as to why some people kill skitterlings. If I came off harsh, I apologize, cuz that was not my intention. I've recently returned to a civilian life and it has been a little struggle to consider people's feelings. I'm used to speaking without having to think about what I say or having to walk on eggshells. So if I come off abrasive, please don't take it personal.

[Newsin]

I posted this in the other similarly running thread but I'll do it here too:

Im happy to see the griefers responding in the thread since it helps support what people have been complaining about in regards to this.

The issue at this point isnt the griefers, its the devs for making the decision(as far back as ignoring the concern in alpha) to not change the mechanics of the weak points in the crystals being tied into the skitterling biting them. There are more than a few options they could do to change this but simply refuse to and I believe it to be a stubborn sticking point for them.

1. They could create timed skitterlings that cannot be targeted or killed that chew the crystals then die after doing so(and do not bug the arkfall).

2. They could simply time the weak spots to appear automatically(using a similar code they used on the sieges with the capture points that would get puss balls on them that randomly would appear/disappear based on damaging. -This- would be one of the easiest of changes to implement since some of the base code is there. EGO could simply be revised to say "target the weak points on the crystal" or something to similar effect.

3. Remove the weakspots altogether, make the crystal's damage scale different and let all the nade-***** go to.

4. Make arkfall skitterlings immune to aoe weapons(impractical design change but there you go).

5. Replace hellbug red crystal arkfalls permanently with blue ones instead.

6. Make hellbugs randomly drop a goo type item that the player has to melee attack the crystal with(1 shot) that creates a weak spot made by the player(similar to the other red crystal arkfalls of other enemy types using weapons.

And I could go on. Again at this point its not the griefers that are the issue, its the developers having groomed a segment of the player base to be griefers with a poor game mechanic.

Some good idea's, it just sucks that they come up with a game mechanic that isnt just run and gun kill everything in site to complete the objective only to have it turn out to be this big of an issue. Heaven forbid people cant wait 3 seconds to have a hole open up before launching their missles and AoE at it.

[Newsin]

Hey man, it wasn't directed at you, it was just a broad statement. The jist of it is, yes some people may be noobs but some people may have an ulterior motive behind their actions. I was just presenting an alternate reason as to why some people kill skitterlings. If I came off harsh, I apologize, cuz that was not my intention. I've recently returned to a civilian life and it has been a little struggle to consider people's feelings. I'm used to speaking without having to think about what I say or having to walk on eggshells. So if I come off abrasive, please don't take it personal.

Ahh Broad statement gotcha lol. Its all good. Im just used to people putting words in each others mouths. I get what you're saying I honestly after thinking about it a bit more dont think you should stop. I just think that people could have a little common respect for one another long enough so that people can enjoy all aspects of the arkfall.

I should have more respect to when I orginally posted this I was heated. I should really let myself calm down a little before jumping on these forums haha. BTW thanks for your service bud. Ill remember that, reajusting is tough. My sister was in the military and suffers from PTSD so I know it can be tough ( not saying your suffer from PTSD ).

[Sanguinesun]

Some good idea's, it just sucks that they come up with a game mechanic that isnt just run and gun kill everything in site to complete the objective only to have it turn out to be this big of an issue. Heaven forbid people cant wait 3 seconds to have a hole open up before launching their missles and AoE at it.

Its just a poorly designed mechanic to me. When you design a game to have aoe weapons of any sort yet require players to cooperatively -not- kill a mob type to that it can perform an animation and mechanic for the objective, its just simply counter intuitive on the mechanics level and secondly counter intuitive on the cooperative level since there will always be those that will be anarchical, ignorant of mechanic, or make mistakes to the objectives and then justify their actions and most likely not be held accountable otherwise.

This design is thus what grooms players to be toxic with each other and can so easily be remedied and return things to the cooperative intent of the general design. The problem is that the devs are in an epistemic bubble of thinking that players -should- work it out with each other to prevent this as being an issue because they think they can have the design better groom/teach players to work cooperatively within their design intention.

I think players as a whole are showing them to be wrong on this and they're very much digging their heels in otherwise.

[JxSiN]

Ahh Broad statement gotcha lol. Its all good. Im just used to people putting words in each others mouths. I get what you're saying I honestly after thinking about it a bit more dont think you should stop. I just think that people could have a little common respect for one another long enough so that people can enjoy all aspects of the arkfall.

I should have more respect to when I orginally posted this I was heated. I should really let myself calm down a little before jumping on these forums haha. BTW thanks for your service bud. Ill remember that, reajusting is tough. My sister was in the military and suffers from PTSD so I know it can be tough ( not saying your suffer from PTSD ).

I was being a little defensive, and I apologize for that. At least we can talk about things rationally and it not get into a flame war. There is one thing I did leave out of my original post. That is, I do believe there are some out there who do this type of crap to grief someone. Heck, man, I still see idiots using cars and that truck at arkfalls. It isn't as frequent, but it still happens. All I wanted to do was bring some other points to people's attention that they may not realize.

And as far as the "Just sayin'" It's something me and my best buds say to each other when we aren't agreeing with each other.

"Dang, Jackson, Taylor Swift is awesome.. I love her new song."
" Yeah, but Beyoncé had one of the greatest videos OF ALL TIME... Just sayin'"

[Newsin]

I was being a little defensive, and I apologize for that. At least we can talk about things rationally and it not get into a flame war. There is one thing I did leave out of my original post. That is, I do believe there are some out there who do this type of crap to grief someone. Heck, man, I still see idiots using cars and that truck at arkfalls. It isn't as frequent, but it still happens. All I wanted to do was bring some other points to people's attention that they may not realize.

And as far as the "Just sayin'" It's something me and my best buds say to each other when we aren't agreeing with each other.

"Dang, Jackson, Taylor Swift is awesome.. I love her new song."
" Yeah, but Beyoncé had one of the greatest videos OF ALL TIME... Just sayin'"

LOL, yeah no doubt I get where you're coming from. Its all good and I also say "Just Sayin'" prolly more then I should haha.

[Youkai Risu]

Yes please ! Another reason I don't really do ark falls. Tired of bmg users, infector users, rocket ******... Oh wait every gun except a sniper is used to kill those skitterlings. I ve asked plenty of players to stop, but the usual uneducated answer of I don't give a **** is usually the reply. Mmo's are about social events not focusing on your own player progression. After all, tell me, besides ego pursuit ego of 5-15 credits, a outfit that does nothing, and maybe a title... What the hell else do you get in this game with no ego Benifits. This game has been seriously lacking since day one on character progression. It's the only game I ve ever played that punishes you the higher your character level.

[JxSiN]

I think the problem I had is that I wasn't looking at it through you guys' perspective. I listed my reasons I kill skitterlings, so you know I'm not doing it just to be a dousche. I don't pay attention to others doing it either because I'm doing it right along with them. After re-reading the comments on some of the god-awful experiences you guys have went through, I can see why you feel this way. Maybe I've been lucky cuz I've always finished the arkfalls. I farm ark salvage (or maybe it's called gulanite cuz I heard a guy on an e3 video say you can use gulanite to upgrade your turrets during volge sieges) so the longer the arkfall lasts, the more salvage I get. But if the shoe were on the other foot, I can completely agree with the frustration caused by people who do it just to do it.

To the posters of this thread and the other one, I actually wanna say thanks because I can see it in a way I didn't before. Never again will I respond to someone at an arkfall when they are yelling not to kill skitterlings with "less talk more shoot." Yes, I do that, it is basically hotkeyed, lol