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  1. #1
    Senior Member Sdric's Avatar
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    Less is less, not more.

    I dare to say that I'm one of the most dedicated Defiance players left,

    I took my time to get to EGO 5k and was able to accept a lot of bad decision made, hoping it'ld become better.


    Bugs might have been fixed, new ones added, but at the end of the day Defiance is less fun than at the day it was released.

    Why is that?

    It's plain simple, playing as a group is fun.
    Getting items is fun.
    Events (more or less) are fun.

    So what happened when Defiance came out?
    People gathered to farm road-quests for keys, ported to each, played in large groups.
    (At least an our clan we regularly got 20+ people playing together)
    The bigger the group was, the larger was the area covered.
    It was the most efficient way to play Defiance.
    Thus people were forced to play together - but it rather felt like teamwork than like a must!

    With the removal of Keys from roadquests this kind of playstyle was destroyed.
    People went to farming mine99 & co.
    Sadly it was much more difficult to get 20 players to do to this.
    The groups got smaller, less player interaction was the result.

    Repeatable quests got nerfed and pretty much inefficient.
    People went to Arkfalls, went there solo.
    Playing in a group was neither needed, nor wanted anymore.
    It's far more easy to kill an Arkfall on your own than in a group if you know what you're doing.

    Arkfalls got nerfed.
    People started to not even care anymore, driving to end events and tagging them.

    NowTrion is making the same mistake again.
    The amount of Arkfalls get lowered.
    People log in, look on the map - no events.
    Not even Arkfalls are left to do!

    What content remains for a player who finished the story, eventually reached maximum ego - when there ain't even Arkfalls left on the map?


    Keys are content.
    People kept playing since at the frequency of 2 lockboxes / hour they still felt like they had a chance to get something special.

    Now you ->work<- (I use the term work since it has become a pain to get one) hours in order to get a box.
    At the end of the day you get so much less than before that, while loot is the last reason to keep people playing.

    All because Trion tried to force people into buying lockboxes. Buying power in a game they already payed full price for.

    As we can see, it didn't work.
    People stopped playing because it just became plain frustrating.
    The concept failed.

    Now please, take this advice.
    Undo the nerfs to roadquests, repeatable quests and Arkfalls.
    You saw that this drove people away.
    Why do you keep doing this?
    Just Why?






    E/:




    Quote Originally Posted by Sdric View Post
    It was great.
    It was fun.
    Was.
    Then Defiance really drove players away - rather than attracting new ones.

    I do see people getting back to Defiance when Keys for road-quests would be re-introduced.

    Reasoning circle:

    Re-attract players:
    It's an easy thought process:
    -Player A: "Wow, they added extra loot? I might give it a shot."
    -> Player A actually gets some lock boxes within a reasonable amount of time.
    -->(S)he thinks - "Wow that's much better than before! I should give it a shot!"
    ->Player A now finds a rare item.
    -->"Wow, that's great! I wanna try this - use it (in PvP)"
    -> Player A keeps playing.
    -> Player A finds a new toy
    --> The circle restarts


    I personally had this experience, when I bought* a legendary FRC Incubator which is quite amusing in PvE.
    It kept me playing for the whole last week.
    Now I slowly am getting to the state of:
    "So... what do I do now?"
    Since the dropprate is so incredibly bad and stats are random** I haven't even found a purple toy to play with within this whole week.

    *(Since I've yet to find a good item after 5k ego)
    **(I'm owner of a legendary BMG with recoil stats)




    Forcing players away:
    What actually happened is:

    -> Road-quest-keys got removed
    -> Much less loot for player A (s)he gets frustrated and tries to find a spot to grind in order to keep his/her item output
    -> Player A moves to mine 99 and co
    -> It becomes repetitive
    --> Player A looses fun
    -> Repeatable quests get nerfed
    --> Player A looses even more ouput (items)
    --> Player A gets even more frustrated
    -> Player A tries to grind keys at Arkfalls
    -> Extreme loss of output
    --> Basically no motivation left to even try
    ->Arkfalls get nerfed for the first time
    --> Player A wonders why (s)he even keeps trying
    -> The amount of Arkfalls get lowered
    --> Player A doesn't even have Arkfalls left to do

    => Nothing left to do.


    Adding 2 keys to each road quest is likely to give Defiance a greater "push" than even a free-weekend would!





    E²/:


    People want loot.
    People want toys to play with.
    People want to experiment with mods.

    Why make motivation such a rare good in the first place?
    And why on earth would take away what keeps them playing?




    E^3/:

    Quote Originally Posted by Sdric View Post

    The rewards made people play together since it was the most efficient way to progress.
    Now playing solo has become the most efficient way to make keys.

    Playing is fun.
    But only if you can feel like you actually achieve something.

    Getting 12 green 3 blue and 1 violet item after a week worth of grinding does not make you feel like you achieved anything.

    Since Defiance is an incredibly easy game it lacks this feeling in many aspectsEven Nim who I beat at the first attempt.
    What however makes Defiance fun is the variety of different guns.

    But since there is basically no level based progression for normal weapons, you really do need a legendary version to notice a difference.
    To experience something new.


    Don't mistake Defiance for Diablo, were rare weapons, are rare weapons. In Diablo there is a constant progression.
    While in Defiance weapon power is descrete ("not fluent") and there is no inbetween.

    Since most quests and missions grant a hilariously low amount of scrip, items and ark salvage what motivates to do them is the experience gained.
    However once you get to 5k Ego the rewards become nearly non-existent.


    In the end even if you get lucky to get a single legendary weapon after a weak of grinding it has 6 random stats that are very likely to get screwed up, making it maybe less usefull than green weapons.
    E.g. Brutal synergy, damage after self revive, Grenadier on a BMG.

    So in the end:
    • You're forced to play solo for maximum efficiency
    • Quests feel un-rewarding
    • The chance to get a rare item is incredibly low
    • ->The chance to an item type of your choice is low
    • -->To get 6/6 usefull stats is close to impossible
    • --->In the end you stick with the weapons you have
    • Which makes the whole game extremely repetitive.
    • The chance get several different equalliy efficient loadouts become the search for Atlantis
    • => People loose the motivation; It's like running vs. Usain Bolt.
      The lesser the chance to be sucessfull, the more frustrating it becomes
    PC EU
    IGN: Asuka Dex

    Warmaster?
    More like "Fresh Meat"!

  2. #2
    i agreee they remove all the good stuff very fast like road quest keys , mine 99 keys , scrapyard shortcut , sieges , less arkfalls

    but the technical issues usually stay long , and if they ever get fixed 2 other issues start for each issue that was fixed

  3. #3
    Senior Member
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    You now I actually wish I had had the game at the start it sounded better and the lag and bugs would have made no difference as an xbox user my entire experience has been like that. Due to the lack of content if and when my game works again after this patch I will just get to 2500 and be done.
    Female gamer - geek - programmer who no longer plays Defiance and subject to censorship
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  4. #4
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    Great post and I just do not understand the business model some games are embracing.I came to Defiance and quit Borderlands2 when I worked out at level 50 to try to get the best gear I should farm bosses all day every day due to the miniscule drop rate,doing that is really not my thing so I moved on.
    I played a game called Tabula Rasa which I am sure some people here played,now I would not hold it up as a shining example of how to do an MMO which is probably why it folded in a year,but to me it got the in game rewards spot on.It threw good loot at you,you would get good purples just for quest rewards.Four months into the game they brought out a range of awesome elemental shotguns and they told the community they were rare,I would often get two of these "rare" shotguns per gaming session and when I tried to give them to clan and friends they all had them as well,I saw a fair bit of complaining about the game but I never saw a "Waaaaaaaaah I am chocked up with awesome weapons and it is making me unhappy" post.
    So, this drip drip of removing content,key opportunities and things to do just baffles me.I understand Trion is trying to make money but surely making the current playerbase smile and possibly encourage friends to come and have a blast is the main moneyspinner for any game,get players in and keep them in then must help with Dlc sales,use the in-game store just to tick over with vehecles,outfits and some new exclusive items,perhaps weapon skins and so forth.I wish Trion the best of luck as I want to see this game succeed as it will help bring more MMO based content to consoles especially but they need to have a long hard look at their business model and plans for the future.Cheers all and happy gaming.

  5. #5
    Senior Member Sdric's Avatar
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    It was great.
    It was fun.
    Was.
    Then Defiance really drove players away - rather than attracting new ones.

    I do see people getting back to Defiance when Keys for raod-quests would be re-introduced.

    Reasoning circle:

    Re-attract players:
    It's an easy thought process:
    -Player A: "Wow, they added extra loot? I might give it a shot."
    -> Player A actually gets some lock boxes within a reasonable amount of time.
    -->(S)he thinks - "Wow that's much better than before! I should give it a shot!"
    ->Player A now finds a rare item.
    -->"Wow, that's great! I wanna try this - use it (in PvP)"
    -> Player A keeps playing.
    -> Player A finds a new toy
    --> The circle restarts


    I personally had this experience, when I bought* a legendary FRC Incubator which is quite amusing in PvE.
    It kept me playing for the whole last week.
    Now I slowly am getting to the state of:
    "So... what do I do now?"
    Since the dropprate is so incredibly bad and stats are random** I haven't even found a purple toy to play with within this whole week.

    *(Since I've yet to find a good item after 5k ego)
    **(I'm owner of a legendary BMG with recoil stats)




    Forcing players away:
    What actually happened is:

    -> Road keys got removed
    -> Much less loot for player A (s)he gets frustrated and tries to find a spot to grind in order to keep his item output
    -> Player A moved to mine 99 and co
    -> It becomes reptitive
    --> Player A looses fun
    -> Repeatable quests get nerfed
    --> Player A looses even more ouput (items)
    --> Player A gets even more frustrated
    -> Player A tries to grind Keys at Arkfalls
    -> Extreme loss out output
    --> Basically no motivation left to even try
    ->Arkfalls get nerfed to the first time
    --> Player A wonders why (s)he even keeps trying
    -> The amount of Arkfalls get lowered
    --> Player A doesn't even have Arkfalls left to do

    => Nothing left to do.


    Adding 2 keys to each road quest is likely to give Defiance a greater "push" than even a free-weekend would!
    PC EU
    IGN: Asuka Dex

    Warmaster?
    More like "Fresh Meat"!

  6. #6
    Member CrYpToNiTe's Avatar
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    I am finding myself getting less n less motivated playing Defiance. Note that i have been playing since launch and have been thru the whole poopstorm of problems until a few weeks ago. It was damn fun.... but it not longer as interesting because everytime i log in i am alone by myself my friends list are all darken. I am finding myself playing just 1-2hrs every other day now. When the infected siege was introduced i immediately bought bits in my own way to support the game.. I am no longer feeling that way anymore.. sigh... really sad to see things are just getting worst n worst with the radical direction the developers are going..

  7. #7
    Member Combo Breaker's Avatar
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    Something must have failed with the patch. There were 3 Major Arkfalls in my world last night. I haven't seen this reduction yet.
    www.youtube.com/user/combo65

    IGN: Combo Breaker

  8. #8
    Senior Member Sdric's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Combo Breaker View Post
    Something must have failed with the patch. There were 3 Major Arkfalls in my world last night. I haven't seen this reduction yet.
    Afaik it also scales with the amount of players online.

    For people like me qot free morning but often have to stay at university from 2p.m to dawn it is very noticeable.
    I've been semi-afk for the whole morning checking the map again and again.

    It's extremely empty.
    PC EU
    IGN: Asuka Dex

    Warmaster?
    More like "Fresh Meat"!

  9. #9
    Most likely some exec has a financial goal to meet and they decided that frustrating gamers to pay to win is the best way to make that goal this quarter.

    If I was an optimist, I'd say that Trion may be reducing the arkfalls so they don't compete for player time against upcoming sieges. Or, they're getting ready to fix the game economy and launch a bank/AH.

    If I was a pessimist, I'd say they're just dropping the ball out of shear mismanagement.

    (I've said many times that bringing back the Alpha emergency key rewards would get a lot of people playing, it wouldn't hurt the nonexistent economy, and people would spend real money on inventory slots)

  10. #10
    Member MaxSterling's Avatar
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    I was thinking that bonus loot weekend is exactly how loot drops should normally be.




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